PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer chatted with Shannon Molloy. FOURTEEN is a book about his life as a teen, growing up gay in a regional town. Shannon shares his story, as well as his top tips on how to become a best selling author, finding your story, getting published, and the grueling editing process.
What is your book, Fourteen, all about?
This is one year in my life when I was 14 growing up in regional Queensland at the turn of the new century in the year 2000. Just sort of trying to figure out who I was in a pretty inhospitable setting, being the NRL mad all-boys school, very toxic macho culture that I went to, and all the sort of torment and horror that came along with others. People sort of realized I was gay before I did and it was kind of a year of some pretty horrific mental verbal and physical abuse on an almost daily basis. But the story is also about how I survived that year with the help of the love of my incredible family and a little posse of girlfriends with a sort of smattering of the late 90s pop music in there as well.
Meggie: I want to get on to the tips to writing a memoir but just quickly, There's a scene in the book towards the end where you go on exchange and your host mother was wonderful.
Can you just talk us through the power of the relationship of someone who wasn't your blood family but really from my reading of it changed your life?
Shannon: It absolutely changed my life. She was this sort of you know, larger-than-life character. Born and raised in Flushing Queens who then moved to Connecticut. There was not a nasty bone in her body and she was sort of the first adult who talked to me about my sexuality and what I was figuring out about myself in a non-malicious way, in a very understanding way. She was wonderful. She would drive me to this like gay and lesbian youth group. She took me to queer prom which I didn't even know was a thing when I was growing up in Australia. And she was just unquestionably there for me and it was the first time that I'd experienced that.
I was quite unsure growing up if I would ever experience that so she had a profound impact on me saying that the world wasn't always going to be this horror that I had endured. And that there were people out there that would love me and be kind.
Meggie: I want to dive in for people who are listening who think they have a story to share, who are touring with the idea of writing a memoir, or who have had people in their life say to them, “you should write a memoir.”
What's the process of writing a memoir like? Where do you even start?
Shannon: The great thing is that everyone has a story. I really subscribe to that view that within all of us there are experiences and views and ups and downs that make a compelling story, that people can get something from. The flip side of that is that there's a lot of competition. You know, if we all have stories, getting them out there and having them read can be really challenging at times. So what I did was I became aware through a media colleague that a particular publisher was on the hunt for new stories and I really seized from that opportunity. The problem at the time was that I hadn't written a single word about this story that I'd had rolling around in the back of my mind for years that I knew could be powerful and that I wanted to tell.
So what I did was just write a really succinct but kind of powerful one-page pitch outlining who I was, what I wanted to say, the key characters, the sort of key story arcs within this book and a bit of a point of difference. And for me it was this is one year in my life and each chapter would be one month in that year from January to December and it would kind of plot this rollercoaster ride and share some sort of tales that you read now in 2020 and think, oh thank God things have changed. But then you sort of have had cause to reflect and think, first of all, this was not that long ago and second of all, had things really changed.
I would have wanted it to be personal but also thought-provoking and a little bit different. And so that's what I pitched with a one-pager and that got me in the door and then I thought oh no now I've got to write something.
So I wrote a sample chapter which I thought showcased the absolute best of that page. And that started the conversation.
After writing an amazing pitch, one-pager, then a sample chapter, what kind of happens from there? Do they make you an offer? How does that work?
Shannon: So the person I pitched it to was the head of non-fiction at Simon and Schuster in Australia and then would also be my editor once the deal was in place. I worked with him on the pitch. I sort of got him interested, met with him, talked about how it could play out, and then the process from that was writing this sample chapter.
And I worked with him on making it as strong as it could be and then the way it works. I'm told this is how it works in most publishing houses. A person takes this thing that they've found and they pitch it to the entire team and that's you know other parts of literature within the business, the sales and marketing team, the management. I think the sample chapter even went to the US to be looked at by someone over there at Simon & Schuster. And so they, the whole business sort of bi-xenon on this idea and then from there they made me an offer and I got to work on actually writing it and put together 80,000 words in five and a half months.
“It took longer to refine it and go through various sets of hands than it took more than the length of writing it.”
Meggie: Oh my gosh! Did you write the book in less than six months? That's a quick turnaround.
Shannon: Yes, but as you know journalists work best with deadlines and I wanted it done so that we could begin the next chapter of the journey which would be editing that which took 12 months. So, it took longer to refine it and go through the various sets of hands than it took more than the length of writing it.
The process, it's normally the sort of time. From deal to having it on shelves is about 18 months and that's pretty much exactly what it was in my case.
They go through it with a fine-tooth comb. There are lots of people that give incredible and valuable feedback. Then there's you know, six rounds of proofreading and restructures and all that sort of jazz. So yeah, it's a lengthy process.
When is the TV series or the movie coming out?
Meggie: From people wanting to know, when is the TV series or the movie coming out? I want to know that too because I can really see the book Fourteen. It seems to me that when it's a great story like yours, it's actually just the beginning.
Shannon: Potentially, hopefully! So at the launch, there's normally a lot involved in it. Unfortunately, mine was due to that. My tour was gonna start on April 2 and so the Corona virus has sort of thrown a spanner in the works and that's why I talked to you from my house now instead of us being in a nice setting like a cafe or something like that.
But normally, you'd hit the road and do lots of readings and events and press. I'm doing a little bit of virtual stuff like this and dropping into bookshop events and whatnot. But basically, the process is that you write the book. I did the audio version of it as well which was another sort of five days locked in a studio. and then yeah hopefully, this is just the beginning. There has been some interest in acquiring screen rights which is very exciting but who knows. We'll see. Watch this space.
Is it normal that you would get an opportunity to write a sample chapter before you get a deal? Is that like a normal part of getting published?
Shannon: As a process, it's not abnormal. I have two really good mates that have written books that bears eighteen months before mine came out. One of them is Rick Morton. So he did much the same that I did, wrote some sample stuff, and then wrote the book over the course of a period of time. Conversely, the other friend had written a full manuscript, had sort of gone through it with an agent, and then took it to a publisher. Both are fine.
For me, it just happened really quickly and so I didn't have time to write a full book. But, I know that if you've got a great story to tell and you can get with the hook or a little taste of what's to come then you know, go for it!
“If you’ve got a great story to tell and you can get with the hook or a little taste of what’s to come then you know, go for it! ”
If people don’t have a profile as a writer or they don’t have a career for writing or journalism. Do you think it's possible for their stories to get told?
Meggie: You’re an accomplished journalist. Do you have any advice on how they should position themselves to get picked up?
Shannon: Absolutely! I don't know if I'd call myself an accomplished journalist but, thank you! I'm a journalist but I'm an unknown author and I don't really have a profile in that space. I'm certainly not kind of mainstream so I would count myself in some regard as being in the camp of someone without a massive profile. Go for it.
As I said, everyone has a story to tell and if you can refine your pitch and find your point of difference and really identify who your book is going to resonate with and emphasize that. I think memoir is a booming part of the literary world. People are really responding, particularly at the moment in uncertain times, to stories that are true and that they can learn something from. So, I don't think it matters who you are. If you've got a compelling story and the capacity to write it, then go for it.
“Everyone has a story to tell and if you can refine your pitch and find your point of difference and really identify who your book is going to resonate with and emphasize that. ”
Meggie: If you've got a great story, if you know that your life is a little different if people are always fascinated in your story, but then you don't have the writing skills. If you don't think of yourself as a writer, is there like a middle ground? Or is it typical in a memoir industry to partner with a ghostwriter?
What are the options for people who don't fancy themselves as a writer?
Shannon: Firstly, there are a ton of free or very cheap writing courses that people can take and now it's a great opportunity to do it because we're all stuck at home unable to go to the pub and waste hours away as I used to. So there's that option.
You could have a go at improving your skills and do it yourself but absolutely there are opportunities to partner with different people. It could even be that, let's say you've got a really great story that you think could have an impact but you're not a strong writer. Maybe you could partner with an illustrator, into a kid’s books.
You could think about doing like an audio podcast series that's complemented by a short-form book or a story, a sort of essay compilation. I think maybe if you had a large profile a ghostwriter would be the norm but I'm not sure if it's just for others necessarily but gosh, who knows?
Meggie: I'm interested to know from your perspective, as the author, what was that like? Because presumably when you write a memoir, you need to go fairly deep into the best of your life and also the worst.
How did you manage writing a memoir? Was it quite traumatizing?
Shannon: It was an interesting process when I took on this project. I had never really told people much of what happened to me. My closest friends knew maybe the surface level detail that school was really terrible and I had a rough time but that's kind of it. Even my husband knew some of the anecdotes that are in this book but not the full sort of the year of hell. And my mom certainly, a lot of this was news to her which was hard and sad. So personally it was a kind of a traumatic experience at times. But I was really careful that I had a support network in place, that I took regular breaks. It could be something like I wrote a really tough couple of pages and then went for a nice walk in the park afterward.
I was really cautious that this could be triggering and almost certainly would be triggering and so it was difficult. But at the end of it all, honestly, I think it was the most cathartic thing that I've ever done. I took this box of pain and shame that I've been carrying around hidden deep inside me for twenty years and let it go. It was amazing.
“Personally, it was a kind of a traumatic experience at times. But I was really careful that I had a support network in place, that I took regular breaks.”
I joked that it was like free therapy that I got paid for, so it was great in that regard. But of course, you know this story is one that's not unique. A lot of gay men have experienced what I experienced and a lot of gay youth continued to experience what I experienced. So this will be challenging for some people to read but the thing that I really want to emphasize and that I hope I did in the book is the power of kindness and of love and how simple acts of kindness can change someone's day, give them hope to carry on for another couple of months and in one example in the book save their life.
And so I hope that there's some optimism in that story and of course when you get to the end of it and you read here's what happened in the 20 years after part and seeing me now on-screen, hopefully, looking happy, maybe a little bit tired. But the message that I truly believe and that I'm so passionate about sharing is that it gets better. You know, a terrible day today is tomorrow's lesson learned or something. And you know terrible days, terrible weeks, terrible months, or indeed terrible years, don't last forever and that there is better to come.
“I think it was the most cathartic thing that I’ve ever done. I took this box of pain and shame that I’ve been carrying around hidden deep inside me for twenty years and let it go. It was amazing. ”
Meggie: Did you have to go through a process of deciding what you wouldn't want to put in the book in the sense of your family and friends? Do you have to decide whether you're gonna leave things out in order to protect other people and what was that process like?
Shannon: Yeah, it was one of the things that I did and it's a tip that other writers gave me. One that I totally think is worth doing is that I didn't edit while I was writing. I just wrote. I left the editing to the end so that I didn't get too much in my own head that I didn't overthink things or doubt myself. And so when I got to the end there were definitely some things that I thought that didn't need to be in there, it doesn't enrich the story but it betrays someone's secret. I change everyone's name in this book who comes across badly, essentially. Mostly for legal reasons but also because you know, it's been 20 years and maybe the guy that was horrific to me is now lovely and has changed. I don't want his family and work colleagues to think that that's necessarily reflected in who he is today.
So, I felt a responsibility to do that. There were some things, some of the worst parts in the book we muted a little bit just because we didn't want to depress people. We didn't want to have people think I can't write any more of this and miss the hope and optimism. But largely, this story is a reflection of the best and the worst that year with a couple of small details left out.
“The message that I truly believe and that I’m so passionate about sharing is that, it gets better. You know, a terrible day today is tomorrow’s lesson learned or something. And you know terrible days, terrible weeks, terrible months, or indeed terrible years, don’t last forever and that there is better to come. ”
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