How to Turn Your Career Lemons to Lemonade

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke to Brittney Oliver from Lemons 2 Lemonade. Forbes named her one of “Nine Black Women Leaders Dedicated to Empowering Others.” Brittney talked about the barriers that black women face in a job search and the workplace, as well as her top tips on how to keep relationships fresh.

“The job search is just so much harder for women of color. There’s a lot of racial bias that we have to deal with. It’s gender bias and it’s racial.”

Meggie: Brittney, we're so delighted that you're able to join us all the way from Tennessee. You've had an amazing career and I'm really interested to hear a bit about your journey from where you started to how you got to where you are today. You founded a company called Lemons 2 Lemonade, I love the name by the way!

What’s the story behind Lemons 2 Lemonade?

Brittney: Lemons 2 Lemonade is such a passion company for me. It's how I fill my cup every day. Lemons 2 Lemonade was based off my career journey. When I graduated from college, little did I know that I would go on over 100 interviews to try to get a PR job. It wasn't even my first job and it wasn't even in my career. I had a hundred interviews just to get something right.

A lot of people don't really think about how hard that is to be rejected that many times. I was living in the city of my dreams. New York was where I always wanted to be. So, to get those rejections was really hard and I had to learn how to navigate through that. I carried an embarrassment and a shame around that job search until four years later. I decided to share my journey online, it's also on my LinkedIn, and it went viral.

There were so many people who shared that they had similar career journeys and they wanted more content. I decided this doesn't have to be it. Let's keep creating this career content and keep creating these conversations.

Meggie: It's interesting because the article that you wrote that went viral specifically talked about some of the challenges facing women of color. Can you talk about that experience?

What are the challenges that black women encounter during a job search?

Brittney: The job search is just so much harder for women of color. There's a lot of racial bias that we have to deal with. It's gender bias and it's racial. That intersectionality is what a lot of people don't realize.

A recent report showcase that junior level, black women have the hardest time with the broken rug. So, that's the bottom layer level just trying to get up from entry-level. That was a spot that I also struggled with.

The things that happen include having a harder time finding mentorship and advocacy. We talk about sponsorship all the time; not having the sponsors that we need and the people to advocate for us; then visibility. We’re trying to figure out how to be visible within the workplace. ‘How do we participate?’

Meggie: I like that analogy that you use: the broken rug. I hate that it exists. But, I think it's a really interesting analogy when you think about this idea of a career path, being like a ladder. It’s like you’re trying to climb and climb towards that glass ceiling.

There's a lot of unemployment right now. What are your top pieces of advice for people who are experiencing the rejection that you talked about? You mentioned that that was really challenging and you eventually got to a point where you're able to turn that lemons situation into lemonade. How did you do that? Because when you're in the grind and when you being rejected, you're stressed and it's really depressing. How did you get out of that?

What advice can you give to people who are going through employment rejection right now?

Brittney: The first thing I had to learn was that I wasn't alone in my journey. I self-isolated because of that. I felt like I was the only one experiencing it so I didn't ask for help. You really need help when you're on your journey. So, that's the first thing: know that you're not alone.

Even with the pandemic that's happening right now, with so much unemployment, you're not alone. There are other people. Find that community to help support you during that time so that you can give yourself grace. Don't beat yourself up about the position you're in.

The second thing is because you're not alone, you have to rely on your network. Relationships are key, so network. Now that we can't really go to live events like we used to, there are virtual events. There are virtual communities where people can go: to network, to meet people, to get that support, and to find opportunities.

That's the second piece of it. Keep those relationships fresh. That's also a key to networking. When you meet people, keep the relationship fresh. Because when you hit that career lemon, you can reach out and people will already know what you've been doing and where you're at.

Meggie: I think that's so important. A lot of people struggle with that right now because they're not going to events and not talking to colleagues over the water cooler at work, or whatever. But they're awesome, great ways that you can build relationships even remotely.

How do you keep relationships fresh remotely?

Brittney: One thing that I've been doing is doing check-ins. I do a check-in email and a check-in virtual call. I've been reaching people whose numbers I don't have but are my business colleagues. Every week, I'll send around five emails to different people and just check in with them, see how they're doing, give them a brief update on what I've been doing, and how I can be of service or help to them during this time.

Meggie: That’s a habit that you've built into your remote working? I love that. I love this concept of being of service. I know it's important to the work that you do and I really believe in that concept as well. Someone that I met when I very first moved to New York talked about the idea of ‘Give, Give, Get.’ Like in your service, you’re giving, you're helping and hoping maybe eventually, you'll get. But it's not that initial contact with the hope of getting, to start with. I love that idea which is similar, in terms of being of service.

Brittney: Because I realized that when you're trying to connect with senior leaders, a lot of them are busy and so many people are reaching out to them, wanting, and needing something from them. So, if you can just reach out a helping hand and say, ‘how can I be of service or help you?’ It is refreshing for them. It can be small, like a newsletter. You can do something for their social media, maybe blast a virtual event that they have coming out is really easy.

Meggie: I really love that and I think it is a really cool idea. Forbes named you one of the Nine Black Women Leaders Dedicated to Empowering Others. In terms of how you're being in service, tell us about what you're doing.

How can people get involved with your community?

Brittney: So, Lemons 2 Lemonade is a networking series. It’s a speaker series where I put people of color on stages and we talk about career challenges. Right now, we're not doing any live events because of COVID. But we have a biweekly newsletter that offers tips.

By going to BrittanyOliver.com, you can sign up there for the email. We have the newsletter, the blog, as well as upcoming partnerships with different organizations to talk about how to navigate the job search during this time.

Meggie: Well, that's a really important resource. The figures for unemployment the other day is astronomical. So, I think that is a really important service that's really needed by so many people right now. Thank you for the great work that you're doing. I think we could talk for hours because I know you also help people a lot in terms of getting press coverage and building their personal brands. I want to wrap this up. What is one tangible thing that people could do now, even in isolation, that you think will pay dividends for them in the future?

What's your tip for those who want to make sure that at the end of the pandemic they have done one thing to progress their career?

Brittney: That's a good question. So, one thing that I think people could do right now would be to reevaluate. Take this time to reevaluate your career goals and what you want to be doing in the next five years or next 10 years. This is the time to do it, so have a check.

Take that time to just check yourself and check your goals and see if they're aligned with what your plans are. You can slowly start making that plan to pivot if you're not where you are right now or where you want to be right now. Slowly start to make a plan to pivot.

Meggie: I love that and I'm hoping that the curve does flatten soon so that we can come to one of your Lemons 2 Lemonade events. I really want to check it out. I love your philosophies around finding the silver lining no matter the situation. I think that's a really powerful message. Thank you for the service and the work that you're doing. We're excited to keep in touch and hopefully, those events will be back and running sooner rather than later.

Check out Brittany's amazing work on Instagram, @lemons_2_lemonade, and website.

Brittney Oliver joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss How to Always Find the Silver Lining. Join us for the weekly #PowerPepTalk by signing up for y...

Previously, we wrote something about Wild Heart, Boss Brain, Your Rights at Work, and Top Tips to Pivot Your Career. To catch up on our previous discussions with experts, you can visit it here.

Got a story to share or a PepTalk to give? If you'd like us to feature you, please reach out here.

Wild Heart, Boss Brain - Secret of Wear Lively's Success

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke with Michelle Cordeiro Grant, Founder of an amazing underwear brand, Lively. Michelle talked about creating a company to have work-life balance, her top tips for finding balance, her success in entrepreneurship, and selling her company for $85 million. 

“Don’t fear the unknown, fear not trying.”

Having worked at Victoria's Secret, what was it about the industry that made you want to start something different?

Michelle: There were a couple of different reasons. One, I saw this amazing industry with $13 billion in revenue in the United States alone being dominated by one key player, Victoria's Secret with 30% to 40% market share, and two or three other fragmented players. Nothing had changed in two decades. The number one style from 1998-1999 told me that the category really wasn't evolving as quickly as society was. Couple that with humans now wearing athleisure. They're wearing leggings 24/7. They've gotten much more casual, yet the bra has not changed.

Personally, I felt like the marketing just wasn't speaking to me. I didn't look like a supermodel. I was trying really hard to be one. And I found that brands weren't speaking to human uniqueness and individuality. They were speaking to this one type of woman. I think that was really tiring for a lot of women for a long time. When I got married in 2011, I felt that I was going to have children one day. I wanted a brand that, when I had a daughter, she would feel so good being an individual versus trying the way that I did in my 20s to be a marketing campaign.

Then, I looked at my leaders. These amazing female leaders in this Fortune 500 company were kicking butt in their careers and they weren't kicking butt in their families or at home. I knew that I was on the same path. And if I didn't create my own culture and my own company, I, too, would be choosing career over people.

Meggie: I love that point that you made: wanting to start a company so that you can create the balance. I suppose the balance that you're looking for which a lot of people talk about is the work-life balance. I feel like a lot of big founders and CEOs talk about it, but maybe don't actually live it.

From what I've read and heard from the people that work for you, it's something that's really important to you. You just don't talk about it. You're quite genuine in wanting to create that balance. What has helped you do that? Because I think, it is a challenge for a lot of people who have their own business or who work for businesses and are trying to find that balance.

What has helped you create that work-life balance?

Michelle: Yeah, I think the most important thing is focus. Every day I reprioritize my day. You could work tirelessly. You could work up to 11 pm every day but that doesn't mean you're effective. So, I really lean into quality over quantity. Every day, I say what's going to drive the greatest impact and what is a nice to have versus a need to have and I push out the nice to have’s. I focus on the need to have and I put structure on my day.

I still have a schedule where I get up, I spend time with myself exercising, showing gratitude for the things that I love, spend time with my children, then I get to work. And then, I book in my day and force myself to shut down. It wasn't really until I had children that I was able to book in the day. I was always the last one in the office until I had Lydia. I realized that children actually made me more efficient. It made me more effective because now I was seeing things much more clearly.

Meggie: That's so interesting. The point that you made about becoming more efficient since you had children is so interesting to me. I find a lot of companies that we work with, often have this challenge of working mothers and feeling like they're not going to get the most out of them. But I always say to them: if you have a word for the working mom it’s 'they get stuff done, quickly.'

Michelle: Yeah! We don't have time to mess around. It's always Tick Tock. Make it happen.

Meggie: Do you schedule and you prioritize your day? For people who are looking for tangible tips, what are some that you have? Do you use a time block? Do you use that on like a written calendar? Are you all on the electronic? Are there any hacks that you have that we can steal and learn from?

How do you schedule and prioritize your day?

Michelle: Usually, on Sundays, I adjust my VIPs because I get so many emails, phone calls, and text messages. I think what the priorities are in the business. Right now, it could be the head of our warehouse, or the head of the customer service, etc. They're not always the VIP on my phone. I adjust to where I need to really focus.

The other thing that I do is write down every morning what I want to accomplish that day in a tiny, little notebook. I write all the things so I'm keeping track. By the end of the day, I could see if have I gotten to the things that really are critical today and at this moment, versus the things that I thought were going to be important according to my Google Calendar.

Meggie: That's awesome! It’s like taking back the control so that you're prioritizing it, as opposed to your inbox or your calendar. I had a quote that you said recently. You were talking about your success in business has been 80% psychology and 20% operations. Can you talk us through that?

How did 80% Psychology and 20% Operations play out in your business?

Michelle: Yeah, it really happened when I started my company. I thought success in entrepreneurship was how much you knew and how much you could get done yourself. It was really about the operations of it. But in fact, what I actually learned through mentorship that I was lucky enough to have with Tony Robbins and some other key leaders within business or Airbnb, etc, that it's really about your mental muscle.

As athletes are constantly working on their endurance to persevere through the game or the activities, it's the same thing with entrepreneurship. It's really about mental endurance. If you have the stamina and the mental clarity, you can solve pretty much any puzzle. You don't think of it as an obstacle. You think of it as a puzzle, like a physical challenge. And then, you can really enjoy the idea of figuring out. Otherwise, you see a world of problems. But, if you actually shift your mindset and the way that you think, you won't see problems as much as you see opportunities and puzzles. So, if you start to shift your mentality around the idea of a Rubik's Cube versus this uphill battle, things become a lot more fun and you can get things done much more swiftly.

“If you shift your mindset and the way that you think, you won’t see problems as much as you see opportunities and puzzles.”

Meggie: I love the concept of building that mental muscle. The topic that we came up with when I was talking to your team was this idea of Wild Heart, Boss Brain. That's a big part of your mentality within the business and the way you talk, isn't it? Talk us through a little bit about that.

Wild Heart, Boss Brain.

Michelle: I think women, inherently, see their emotions as a vulnerability. We're very women. We share our emotions, we wear them, and often we're trying to hide them at work and not show that we really feel and wear everything on our sleeves. What I realized is that that's not a vulnerability. That's passion, that's fire, that's drive. The more that we hide that and push it down, the less that we can be effective and really push out.

So, the concept of Wild Heart and Boss Brain is really take that emotion that we have as women and use it as an asset. Take that wild heart and combine it with business, and it can be really explosive. Wild heart, boss brain… Wear Lively.

Meggie: When you are hiring your team, you didn't hire anyone from the underwear industry because you wanted that kind of fresh perspective. Why was that important?

Why was inclusivity really key to this concept: the wild heart, boss brain for every woman?

Michelle: I think it was pretty apparent. This was in 2016. You know, social had obviously had a huge part in the world by now. I felt like individuality was really being spoken to in social media. Women were showing themselves in all-natural states yet there wasn't a brand that was doing that. So, I feel that as brand leaders and brand creators, it's our responsibility to actually tell the stories that society should feel that would inherently make them feel better.

What we do when we create products, it's not necessarily only about how the product makes you feel. It's how that logo with that product makes you feel. Ralph Lauren makes you feel prestige and luxury when you put on his Polo versus you put someone else's Polo on. The idea was when you put on Lively, you should feel passion, purpose, and competence. That will allow women not to just participate in what they love, but hopefully, lead. If they leave, they're going to create products that are more logical and if they're more logical, they're going to sell more. If they sell more, they're going to create jobs. And then, there's the economy.

Meggie: The ripple effect goes from there. You recently I had an amazing exit with the company. What do you think has been the one thing that you've done in your business and with your team that led to the success of the brand and the financial success as well?

What led to the success of Lively?

Michelle: First and foremost, we did not build the brand, Lively. The community did. It was an outward world that was deciding Wild Heart and Boss Brain. That's the tagline, this image, this product, this copy. So, we were letting society really drive the soul, then eventually, the momentum and the decision making of the organization.

Number two is we always put brand equity first. So, no sales, no markdowns, no price first.

And number three, we never compromise on core values. So we never said, 'Yes, let's distribute Lively everywhere and make a lot more money', or 'Yes, let's put Lively at 50% off.' We always said, let's do the right thing for the community, the brand, and the PnL will come.

Meggie: I love that word. Because again, I think a lot of entrepreneurs speak about living the values, but the reality is sometimes they fall short of that.

Was there something with your team or you as a leader did that helped you stay on that true north throughout the entire journey, and even still today?

Michelle: I think it started with our business model. We made sure that we had a business model that could be profitable to a degree. It's not that we're in the black but we knew how to run the model. We were really clear on the financials so that cash is king. Our cash flow was never wavering. As an entrepreneur, if you don't have cash in the bank, you're making compromising decisions. Cash keeps your mind clear.

First and foremost, we were crystal clear on how to create a P&L and KPIs that we could monitor and have sight of how things were running. When you have visibility, you can see and you can steer. You can move like no other. When you're clouded and you're trying to figure out the what versus the how, that's not good.

Meggie: That's so true. We have a question from Jacob, who said he doesn't have children yet, but that's in the plan.

Would you suggest that people who don't have children still add to that sense of urgency you mentioned that you have now because you have kids?

Michelle: Yes. Decide how many hours you're going to commit. Don't go out of that, unless it's extreme. Do I work crazy hours sometimes? For sure. But 70% to 80% of the time, am I staying within my structure? Yes.

The times that I do go over capacity, I find time to give back. So, I don't believe in Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. If I work all weekend, I'll take a Wednesday and give it back.

Meggie: I love that I love that. It's a short, sharp, inspirational start to everyone's day or in today's day for those of us joining us in the United States. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on today's Power PepTalk.

What's the one piece of advice that's really helped shape your career throughout the amazing journey that you've had?

Michelle: I would say my favorite is “don't fear the unknown, fear not trying.”

Meggie: Oh, that really is gonna put everyone on notice. I love that. Don't fear the unknown, fear not trying. For anyone who's watching this, thinking about trying, my favorite quote is actually probably a similar ethos: Leap and the net will appear. Hopefully, there something to gain that can inspire people who are maybe on the fence to potentially take that leap of faith and try.

Where can people find Lively?

How can I get involved? It's an amazing product. It's very inclusive and you have the entire size range for all women.

Michelle: For most women, yes. So we are at www.wearlively.com, @wearlively on Instagram, and a hundred and 20,000 ambassadors all over social media.

Meggie: It's an amazing product and most importantly, a product that has really clear values and clearly a founder and CEO who lives those values.

You can learn more about Michelle here and Lively here.

Michelle Cordeiro Grant from Lively Wear joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss Wild Heart, Boss Brain. Join us for the weekly #PowerPepTalk by signi...

Previously, we wrote something about What are Your Rights at Work and Top Tips to Pivot Your Career. You might want to go ahead and check it out.

Do you have a story to share or a PepTalk to give? If you'd like us to feature you, please reach out here.

What are Your Rights at Work

Meggie Palmer spoke to Susan Crumiller, Founding Attorney at Crumiller P.C., a feminist-focused law firm. Susan talked about what you’re entitled to and what your employer can and can’t do, especially in the time of Covid-19.

She taught us to document everything, get a doctor's note if you’ve had Corona or any other illness, and make sure your employer knows the provision and tax rebates available to them.

Meggie: We want to chat about your rights at work. A lot of men and women have been asked to take pay cuts. A lot of people have been laid off. You run a feminist-focused law firm, what are some of the trends that you're seeing?

What are some of the trends that you've seen during this time?

Susan: We're seeing different people in a couple of different buckets of situations. There are people who are essential workers who are worried about having to go into work and the safety of their workplace. Then, it's a different set of issues for people who are able to work remotely, but might be afraid of their job security. We're getting tons of calls from people who, unfortunately, have already been laid off or furloughed. So, in terms of people being afraid of their job security during pregnancy, we're also getting a lot of calls.

COVID-19 is showing everyone's true colors. We see it with our politicians. We've seen employers who are using it as an excuse to engage in discriminatory conduct. They didn't feel free to do it before and are now saying, “We're laying you off, but it has nothing to do with the fact that you're on maternity leave. It's just business.” Coronavirus: they think it's this magic amulet. So, that's where we come in.

But, it's always better to prevent issues before they happen. I usually tell people that legal rights are largely academic and that if an employer takes an action against you, that's illegal. You're still screwed but it just means you can come back later, file a lawsuit, and get a settlement down the road. But, if you can engage your employer politically, and this is where you're exiting to. It comes with using your negotiating skills.

You can prevent issues from happening. So, the question becomes how to present your legal rights in a way that will protect you but also not isolate you or damage your social standing. A lot of people don't want to be too forthright or too forthcoming and say, “Hell, no. We won't go.” That’s because they don't want to suffer the social repercussions of their workplace, understandably. So, the best thing to do is, as always, figure out ways to present your case in a way that is collaborative and compelling, especially if you have a decent employer. If you have a shitty, jerk employer, figure out how to appeal to their egos or their fear in a way that's not too over.

Meggie: That's interesting, too. This idea of appealing to their ego or their fear, can you just dive in? Because I agree with you and I totally know what you're getting at for people who don't?

How do you appeal to your employer’s ego or fear?

Susan: Ultimately, right now, but as always, we're dealing with human beings and everyone's feeling very vulnerable right now. I'm an employment discrimination attorney, but I'm also an employer. So, I can appreciate the employer situation. Right now, where we're really worried too. Who can we trust? Who can we count on? Who's gonna be there? Can we make ends meet? All of those things.

But with respect to the jerks and the egos and the context of the jerk employers, good employers want to do the right thing. You can approach things collaboratively from the standpoint of “I'm so glad that you're prepared to do the right thing and we can all do the right thing together.” But where you have a really big corporation that doesn't really care about you, or just a less scrupulous company of which there are times you'll get further by figuring out how to not be too overtly threatening, in a way, you want them to feel in control and in charge. But, you need to educate them. They might not realize that they can't use this as an excuse for whatever bad behavior they wanted to engage in. They think they can get away with it. And so it's a question of educating.

Meggie: You run a law firm that that isn't an employment law firm. You have a feminist focus company where you deal with a lot of men and women, but particularly a focus on women's agenda. I know you can't speak specifically about cases.

What are the issues you observed that women are facing during these Covid-19 times?

Susan: I ended up getting a huge thing in my own life too because I have two young daughters. I always joke that when we're looking back and when we meet someone in 30 years, the question will be, “how old are your kids during the corona?” If, you have. Because that's the big thing, balancing being at home with the kids. It's so hard to juggle your responsibilities.

But something that a lot of people don't know is that the new federal legislation provides a sort of paid leave that can be taken intermittently. If you're a caregiver to a child whose school, childcare services, or daycare providers are unavailable because of the coronavirus, you can take those intermittently. My best piece of advice for people in that situation is if you request this type of leave, you can't be penalized for it. This is definitely the main question that we get and that I think about. A lot of moms and dads are facing this. And that's a lot of the times protecting your rights in a political way.

I often use the imagery of the fist and the velvet glove. Requesting leave can be a great form of that and something that everyone should know is retaliation is its own claim. So, if you assert your rights, or if you make a claim of gender discrimination, racial discrimination, or any kind of bad behavior based on a protected class, and your employer then mistreats you and retaliate against you for making the claim, you now have another claim even if your original claim was questionable as long as it was made in good faith. I'm not saying just go and wave around discrimination flag and you'll be fine.

If someone, for example is worried about balancing the responsibilities of work in childcare, I would say, be proactive and come and talk to your employer about it. Say, “I want to do a good job. But as you know, I'm home with my kids. Here are these options available.” The more you make an explicit from a legal standpoint, the harder it is for them to turn around and say, “Well, you're underperforming.” Because you've raised these issues. You've gotten them out into the open.

Meggie: Can you just explain that? I don't have children but if I did, if I had two kids at home, is there leave that's covered by the government?

Does the government pay for my leave or is the employer expected to pay for my leave?

Susan: It's in the form of payroll tax credits for the employer. For example, I have a sick employee who took two weeks. There's the new federal legislature that includes sick leave provisions and then caregiving provisions. They rushed everything through so fast and everything's really sloppy. There are way more and better protections for caregivers and for people who get sick themselves. But, if you get sick yourself, for example, you have two weeks fully paid sick leave at your 100% rate. What happens is when I ran payroll, I clicked a little button saying so and so is on paid leave. Then, I get a tax credit in that very same payroll for the amount of that person's paycheck.

So, the employer is not out of pocket. That's why I think this seems underused, because with a child, with a caregiver provision, you can't use it if you're alive. If you can tell the work and care for a kid, then you can't use it, but you can use it intermittently. I could tell it works. Four hours a day but not eight hours a day, you get paid as per usual for the four hours and then get the credits which are up to 60% -70%, two-thirds of your pay for the other half.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get into the nitty-gritty more than I meant to but my point is, get it out into the open. and be explicit about it. Come forward with your concerns so that you're using it not like a sword rather than a shield.

Meggie: The nitty-gritty is so interesting as well. You mentioned you're an employer, I'm an employer and I think employs a good lot going on too. I think if we can really empower the community members of PepTalkHer to understand the provisions available, that's very valuable for when they have to have that conversation with their boss. Or maybe, they can advise a friend who feels bad that took weeks off because they've got COVID. This is really valuable and very interesting.

What if someone's on maternity leave while all this is going on? Is there any coverage available for them?

Susan: There are no special rules at this moment other than just the regular 'you can't be penalized for being on maternity leave.' You can't be treated differently for being on maternity leave. I did want to make one other point that applies to maternity leave, but also generally. A lot of people have questions, especially pregnant people. New parents are especially worried about their health and their safety in terms of going into the workplace. Lots of people say, “I'm scared to go in which I'm immunocompromised or my partner is immunocompromised”, get a doctor's note. That's my other big piece of advice to everyone if you have concerns.

The New York State also has expanded leave laws. There's lots of great resources on my website. Crumiller.com has a big Resource Center. If anyone has questions, we have set up a hotline. We have an email hotline system if anyone wants to email COVID@Crumiller.com, we have a team distributing answers, but also our better balance and the gender equality law center are operating hotlines and they have tons of really active information.

But New York State pay family has new expanded paid family leave, sick, and family leaves that apply to anyone who was advised to quarantine, for example. You have to get a certification from the health department. You can get started right away with a doctor’s letter and you just submit your doctor's letter to the health department. A letter from your doctor goes probably further like we've been offering to write letters from people for free, who were in unsafe situations. But, we always say “first go get the doctor's letter because that's the factual evidence that you need.” You can't if you're like, “I'm scared to go into work.” That's not a reason not to go.

Meggie: I think what you're saying that applies during COVID in terms of getting the documentation, correct me if I'm wrong, Susan, that it’s so important during any workplace situation that may or may not turn dramatic. So, whether if you think you have been sacked while pregnant, if you think that you've been discriminated against, if you're part of a protected class, and you feel that you're being treated differently, document everything. Put everything in writing. Is that right, Susan?

What are the top things that women can do?

Susan: That's the top thing! You nailed it. That's the top thing: document everything and just make the conversation explicit. Even though it's uncomfortable, say “I know that you guys would never treat me differently just because I'm on maternity leave, but I'm just making sure that we're all on the same page.” If there are layoffs and if you feel you're going to be treated differently because you have kids, you could say something like, “I just want to be very clear and make sure that I'm not going to be treated differently just because I'm caring for three children at home.”

For a gender discrimination claim, for retaliation claims, a lot of the times it hinges on: Did you say anything? It's much harder to come back later and say, “I think I was mistreated and then they treated me worse.” If you come out and say: I'm pregnant. Make it explicit. It bolsters your case and more importantly, it's proactive. They will be more hesitant to take negative action against you once you vocalize these concerns, or they should be.

Meggie: We're really grateful that you could spend this time with us. It’s super interesting. Document everything, get a doctor's note and make sure your employer understands the provisions and the tax rebates that are available to them.

You can email Susan at susan@crumiller.com, COVID@crumiller.com, or you can call their main number. It's on their website, crumiller.com.

Susan Crumiller joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss Your Rights at Work. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signing up for your invite to the ...

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Top Tips to Pivot Your Career

Power PepTalk guest host, Cori Sue Morris spoke to Constance Beverley from Share Winter Foundation about career pivots. Constance shared how she transitioned from being a corporate attorney to CEO as well as her top tips to pivot your career.

Can you walk us through your own career pivot?

Constance: Many people see pivot like there's just one. Anything great in life is a multi-step process. Just an FYI on that: there's no pivot quick scheme in real life. But yeah, I was a corporate attorney. I was a complex corporate litigator, a bankruptcy attorney, during the last financial crisis. I graduated from law school in 2007 and went straight to the big Wall Street law firm. I worked in the big-name firm and did the whole, successful, big law thing.

I hated it. I was good at it. I did not love it. But you know just because you're good at something doesn't mean you should do it. I think that's something that we don't tell people. We don't tell women and we don't tell anyone that just because you're good, doesn't mean it's something that's gonna give your life fulfillment.

And thinking about pivots, as a kid, they tell you to pick a job. Then, you're supposed to work your life around that job. If I could go back, I would tell anyone I mentor to pick a life and then figure out a job around that.

Life especially during the financial crisis, I eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner at my desk. I had lots of debts to pay. I do not come from a background that did not require acquiring a large amount of debt in order to skip over an income bracket. So, I had a lot of obligations during that time which is what motivated me. I was always a hard worker. I was always gonna do the best and I wanted to be the best because that's a plus mentality. But, I was just really unhappy.

I didn't know the kind of lifestyle I wanted was to be more flexible. I wanted to be outside more. I wanted to be giving back more. I want to be more community-oriented. Then the real crux of it is that I wanted a proactive life and being a lawyer or at least a litigator is a very reactive life. Complex corporate litigation is when something happens, you react to it. I didn't want that. I wanted a more proactive life. I wanted to feel like I had a little bit more control.

“Many people see pivot like there’s just one. Anything great in life is a multi-step process.”

I also worked with big corporations and I wanted to work with real people. I realized that in that life, that wasn't gonna work for me. With the law, I love the law. I use the law every day. It gives me an edge in absolutely everything I do. Though, if anyone's contemplating it, go to business school, not Law School. That's my number one thing, go to business school. Or actually, don't go to grad school at all. But yeah, I was just really unhappy.

I was working with nonprofits on the side. People say it's my side hustle. It wasn't necessarily a hustle. It was my side joy. Basically, I started realizing that there were things that I was learning in that capacity that I liked better. I felt more adept to that and I enjoyed it more. I started thinking about making a change in my career. How do I get closer to that full-time rather than part-time? Realizing things, benchmarks, or ways, I made that leap. That was massive because I wanted to pay off my student loans. I was like, “You can't stop using this degree until you've paid for it.” And that was the biggest benchmark.

To be fair, as soon as that was done, it was really hard to stay motivated in that space. I also had certain skills I wanted to acquire and I think that's very helpful for people in whatever current position.

Was there a skill, a client, or a person you wanted to be with to learn from?

Constance: If there's a department or if you want to go in a different direction, you want to figure out how it works. So, I started doing a lot of that. I looked around at the opportunities I had. And I wanted to make sure that I didn't walk out of my current situation without having taken absolutely everything I could get from it. For me, I wanted more direct client contact. I wanted to manage cases. I wanted to do a little bit of business development. I wanted to write a Supreme Court brief. And, I did all of those things. Once that happened, I just decided, “Okay, now I need to start looking.”

Quite frankly, being really unhappy had a super negative impact on my health. Actually, my health got really really bad and forced me to look at my life and ask if it was worth it. The paycheck was really nice, like the big-lawyer paycheck. I can't really say there was much else. Other than that, I also wanted to build a safety net, which I did you.

I grew up raised by a middle-class single mom, she was awesome. She helped my sisters and me. But it wasn't like I could dip into anything unless I built it myself. So, pay off the debt, build a safety net, and acquire a set of skills that would help me with the next thing.

How did you find your new role?

Constance: I had a couple of roles before this role. That's something that I also like to tell people. I've had a couple of friends asking, since they know I'm the one that took the flying leap out of corporate law. I looked around and I started volunteering my time. I worked with other nonprofits. I had friends who were starting businesses who were like, “I really need a lawyer to look at this contract. I can't really afford it and a bunch of those other things.” So, I started doing that.

I left and I joined a tech startup as a co-founder which was way out of my lane. I had no idea what I was doing which was great. Everything was new. Everything was 'build your own equity, choose your own adventure'. We were not the next Instagram which makes me super sad, because that would be great. I would have been talking to you about how to retire before 40. But unfortunately, that is not the case.

I'm actually not big on the retire before 40 thing. I'm on a 'live a life that you don't need to retire from kind of thing’. I think there's a lot of those goals that are pushed on women. Just build a life you like and then you don't have to try to escape it in any capacity. So, I did that and I learned a ton of things. I learned how to deal with an outsourced app team in India, Pakistan, and all these other places. I learned about marketing and went through a tech incubator. I pitched to VCs.

“Build a life you like and then you don’t have to try to escape it in any capacity.”

In all of that time, I also was still doing a lot of community work. I was working with community organizers and sat on a couple of nonprofit boards. I just kept piecing things together. Ultimately, I got a job with a nonprofit that I had worked with in law school as kind of a pastime and took over partnerships and development there. From one of the boards I was sitting on, I was actually offered this job. So, it took some time. There was a five-six year transition between leaving the law and having this job.

Every little step along the way really mattered. When I look at it now, I couldn't possibly do everything that my job requires now without each step along the way. No matter how crazy some of them were, there are things that I understand now because I took a weird contract gig or I helped a friend. So, it was a long pivot, but every single thing got me in the right place. It was a lot of networking and putting yourself out in the circles you want to be involved in.

Nonprofits are a great way to try a new skill

If you want to try a new skill, nonprofits area great way to do it. But there's a technique to that and I will give you this very important thing. Do not call a nonprofit and say, “what can I do?” You're basically asking an overburdened organization to create a job for you to make you feel good. What you can do is call them and say, “I am a marketing whiz. I crush it at social media and I noticed that yours might need a little help. I'd like to intern for you. I'd love to write up a strategy.” Or you could also say, “I am a finance minister. I'm wondering if you're optimizing.”

If you come in with a very specific thing and email them, they're gonna call you back and be like, “Let's talk. When can you start?” If you know exactly what you want to do to get involved in your community, what skills you want to put in, then that is a completely different game-changer. That is what I did. It gave me a lot of work to do. I got very busy very quickly, but that's how you do it.

Can you tell us about Share Winter?

Constance: Share winter is a foundation, but it's not a private foundation. So, we do accept public donations. It was started as an initiative of the US Ski and Snowboard team to get more kids active in winter sports and to get more people interested in skiing and snowboarding. What I do is raise a bunch of money, give it all away to grassroots organizations that are teaching kids who are traditionally denied access to the sport. We let kids who usually don't fit the profile of a skier, or snowboarder which tends to be an affluent white male who lives in a mountain town, get involved in these life-changing sports. I also sit on the committee for the growth of the sport, the National Committee with the trade associations. I'm basically a diversity and inclusion advocate and a bit of a rabble-rouser challenging the norms in this very niche industry. But, they've been super amenable so I'm excited about that.

We also offer consulting and guidance to our individual nonprofits. We're sounding board. They can call me if they don't want to call their board and say, “I just lost a funder, what do I do?” Or, “I don't know how to handle the fact that I have to let all of my part-time staff go because of the economy right now.” So, we're an advocate and also a consultant for each of our grantees and our youth here.

I'm a snowboarder and my season was cut short. It was very hard to see the mountains are out without me, but stay home now shred later.

What would you say to people who are looking to pivot during this challenging time?

Constance: I think the interesting thing is this crisis is a great time to evaluate your goals because you're forced into it. You might as well maximize this moment where you have to wrestle with your anxiety. I'd say the first thing you do is really sit down and ask yourself what you want and what you're willing to sacrifice.

I talked to a lot of people and I’ve heard “No, I'm going to take a pay cut. I'm gonna have to put off having a family for a couple of years.” We're already stressing out and asking ourselves what life is like. So, why not take this really challenging time and think: “If I'm literally starting from scratch, what do I want my life to look like? And what is it going to take to get there?” Because that's really critical.

“The first thing you do is really sit down and ask yourself what you want and what you’re willing to sacrifice. ”

If you don't really know what you want, you're gonna bounce around a little bit. You’ll find that you’re still not happy. Start there and try not to jump into whatever the next thing is just because you have to, unless, you have the privilege to do that and you have some downtime. A lot of people are treating this like there's downtime. Most of us aren't having downtime. We're either side hustling, raising kids, taking care of parents, or we have a partner that might be sick and quarantined in our own house. There's a lot of stuff that's happening. So, don't feel pressured to do that right now.

But, if that is your reality, or if that helps you gain a sense of control, this is a good time to just put it all down. List it out and start looking at it on paper and really confront yourself with what kind of changes you really want to make.

What's your biggest challenge to keeping up or having your journey in the transition or in life, generally?

Perfectionism

Constance: I think it's perfectionism. That's cheesy and it's been on a bunch of TED talks and makes me feel super lame saying it. But, it's real- the idea of what I thought my life should be and that idea of perfection. We're so tasked with knowing what we want to do or what we want to be all the time. We set these goals and then we have this idea of what that looks like and what the perfect version of that is. Nothing is perfect. I have my dream job. It is not perfect. I have bad days. My life is not perfect because I switched careers. There's other stuff I need to do. Accept that that's 100% okay.

People’s perception of perfection

Also, other people's perceptions and perceptions of perfection are not yours. Another cheesy quote that's getting passed around, but really works is that: comparison is the thief of joy. “I don't live in a big house. I am not a partner to a law firm by some people's standards. I have utterly failed.” I have friends that have that mentality and they're like, “How on earth do you get to snowboard and work with the community and still meet with really important people, and do the work you want to do? How do you make that work and pay your bills?”

You've got to remember that everyone's always looking for something no matter what they have. That's part of life. And if you can get over that, the rest of stuff isn't so scary. It's not easy, but it's less scary.

Cori Sue: Success on your own terms.

Constance: Absolutely. Because those are the only ones that matter. If anyone has anything to say about it, ask them if they're paying your bills. “Are you paying my bills? I don't think you need to worry about it and my definition of success.”

Cori Sue: What handles can we follow you on? Um, so the share winter foundation or it's at share winter Foundation, and all my stuff is private because I run a kid's charity. So you know, I keep my corporate and private life separate because you are not your job. So I'm very big proponent of corporate personal life separate but you can find all of that stuff at share winter foundation and where to share with your foundation on Facebook and share winter foundation.org.

“We’re so tasked with knowing what we want to do or what we want to be all the time. We set these goals and then we have this idea of what that looks like and what the perfect version of that is. Nothing is perfect.”

You can check out Constance’s awesome work on Instagram & website.

Constance Beverley of Share Winter Foundation joins Cori Sue, Power PepTalk guest host to discuss Career Pivots. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signi...

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Top Tips for Women Raising Capital

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke with Madelaine Czufin from The Vinetta Project about all things funding in the time of Corona. Madelaine shared her top tips for women raising capital.

How’s it going for the female founders that you deal with who are trying to raise capital right now?

Madelaine: A little context for The Vinetta Project, we do a lot of different programming to help female founders grow and scale their businesses and access capital resources. We don't invest in the companies directly. But we provide a tremendous amount of opportunity for founders to connect with investors, with one another, and other resources to help them with their company.

A lot of what I'm doing now, obviously, is virtual. I'm meeting with founders virtually. We're hosting expert sessions doing community wine nights and things like that. What I have continued to see, number one: is the importance of community in all of this. Making sure that you're tapping into your network and continuing to expand your network. From a funding lens, it's really important that you are seeking advice, mentorship from the same advisors, investors, and mentors that you were talking to before Coronavirus.

I have a number of factors that we're in the process of fundraising and then quarantine happened. And they either kept their same business, maybe had to do a pivot for six months, or completely transforming their business. And their question has consistently been, “Do I reach out to investors still? Where do I take this conversation now?”

It's really interesting because there's still capital out there that needs to be deployed. Some of it will be reallocated back to your current portfolio companies. But investors are still investing in startups and so on. I think it's important as a founder to maintain that grit and that hustle and make sure you don't say, “I'm all alone in this.” Continue to reach out to your resources, your community, and your network. Continue to seek out funding. That being said, I think the way capital is being distributed, particularly from a valuation perspective will shift. Diligence looks different because it's obviously virtual now. But that doesn't mean that VCs and angel investors aren't actively meeting companies, and still actively writing checks.

Meggie: It's really interesting that you say that. The importance of relationship building, even right now, there were a bunch of VCs on Twitter. A lot of them are very active on Twitter anyway, but they're particularly active right now. Probably because they've got less meetings to go to. One of them, I think it was Earnest Capital, he was saying that 95% of his deal flow that comes through email is from Whiteman. He was actively asking women who are looking for funding from anything from 20k to 50k checks up to seven-figure deals to reach out to him.

Do you feel like being active on social media and interacting is an opportunity to get funding?

Madelaine: Absolutely, I think it's kind of twofold. One is certainly something you talk about all the time. It is things like the imposter syndrome. Don't let yourself saying: “Well, my company is shifted. They don't want to talk to me anymore” stop you from continuing the conversations you had before. Similarly, different types of funding opportunities are now out there. There are so many companies doing incredible grants right now that many founders can take advantage of, particularly those focused on diverse founder communities.

Salesforce is looking at doing a tremendous, $10,000 grants for companies. There are the red backpack grants. If Alice is doing a number of them, so it's really important to start utilizing those resources as well. Make sure that you take hold of the capital opportunities that are happening in response to Coronavirus.

Meggie: That Salesforce grant is really great for businesses. I think you have to have 200 to 250 employees and 250k plus turnover to apply for. So it's a really good one.

What is this concept of different sources of capital at the moment?

Madelaine: So, this is an interesting one. We are doing an expert panel session tomorrow talking about the stimulus, which is very timely. Because the second wave is going through right now. I think, as a founder, it's really important that you stay true to the fundamentals of what you're building and why. Not all sources of capital are right for you. To say the loan opportunities for these businesses may be really interesting. But based on what you're trying to build, and your exit strategy that may actually not be the best for you versus continuing to talk to angel investors, and continuing to talk to VCs.

Likewise, some of these grants may be a really great way to extend your runway for six months until you're ready to have those conversations and pick back up if you're in the middle of pivoting your business and you want to hold off. I say all that to go back to my first point, which is making sure you are seeking the right guidance and you're not letting all of these flash buys of, “here's money here, here's money there.”

It can get really overwhelming and seem like there's all this money flying around. Like, “how do I take hold and benefit from this opportunity?” So many companies are going through many different struggles. Taking the step back to say, “what are my fundamental goals. What is it that I am building? And how do I want to get to my ultimate exit?” Whatever that may be. If you let the fads of capital run your business, it can be really dangerous. If you go back to your core group of advisors who have helped you along the way and say, “Is this something that I should capitalize on? Is this a really great grant or loan that actually applies to me and would be really useful?” Maybe it's not and that's okay.

It may be pivoting around your business model for a period of time so that you can continue to bring in revenue in a different way and continue to run your business. Once things transition back, I won't say to normal transition, but to a place where there's more social interaction. People are not in full quarantine. You may want to shift back to your original business idea. I'm seeing a lot of really exciting grit and perseverance in our founder community, which is really inspiring and just incredibly important to highlight. Now is the time where that really comes to fruition.

We actually had an investor panel. One of the investors said, “this time is allowing me to see something in a couple months that I normally take over a year to try to gather from investing in a founder, right?” You want to see when the going gets really tough, how does the founder react? They continued out like, “this is really isolating. This is very hard.” It's times 10 right now to think through what am I going to make this period of time my defining moment as a founder? And using that to say, “I'm going to showcase how I handle this type of situation and not see it as negative but almost like a positive. I can showcase how I pivot, or how I build a business throughout through this time and come out on top.”

That to me is very powerful for anyone and for the investor community as well. So, I thought that was really great advice and a different framework to say. It’s a great way to go through that diligence process in a different way.

Meggie: Because they get to see your true colors and the way that you handle the situation. For those of you who don't know, Madelaine has amazing experience in VC. She now works for The Vinetta Project which is an amazing organization that helps female founders. PepTalkHer’s very proud to be a member. And we're actually going through a program right now sponsored by JP Morgan, which has been amazing for us in our business.

For women who are thinking about starting a business, have started a business, have already raised capital, what's the best way for them to get involved in The Vinetta Project community?

Madelaine: Absolutely. I'll do kind of twofold. So right now, the virtual community is amazing. We're doing two key types of programs. The first is what we call our expert session. So, that investor panel I mentioned, the one we're hosting tomorrow, feel free to check it out on our site. It'll be a panel with JP Morgan, the SBA, and Graphite Financial. We’ll go through demystifying the stimulus, what are things that as a founder, you should think about. It’s really focused in topic areas.

Then, we're also doing wine nights, which Meggie was a lovely host. It’s on Thursday evenings, bringing together a group of eight to 10 founders and creating that community, which is what I spoke about earlier. It's so important even when you're not going to networking events, that you're still meeting new people. So, we're bringing together that community of founders to make sure that they're still connecting.

We had two founders that were working on these different initiatives but around Youth and Sports, literally on opposite ends of the US that would have never actually met. I did have another event that is now collaborating on a project together from one of the nights. So, that's an easy way to get involved to begin. For our programming like the JPMorgan problem hacking cohort, our pitch and panel events, we host dinners.

You can apply also through our site. We have an application for success. You can sign up there and then we select for the different events. So, it's a really amazing community. Again, as I'd mentioned, the goal is really to help female founders grow their businesses, give them access to that community, network, and the conversation around capital resources.

Any founder at the moment who's trying to do what you say and uses as an opportunity? What's the best way to reach out to a VC?

Madelaine: This is interesting because I was actually on the finance and ops team, so I wasn't getting that inbound. It's been really useful for me to see from what we call our venture committee, with our partners at VCs for Vinetta.

How are the best ways for you to get that outreach? It's a mix. Some of them are like, bring on the cold outreach. I want those kinds of emails from a founder, that gives me something short, sweet, concise, and catches my eye. Others are like we'd love an intro from someone else. So, go back to your network and figure out who are the right founders for me to spend time with, that are really going to advocate for me, that are interested in my business.

I think it's definitely frustrating for investors if it's clear, you just BCC and then copy and pasted the same generic email across all of them. No one likes that. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. You're much better off to spend some time saying like, why would I fit within your portfolio? And it means you've done a little research into understanding what is their investment thesis? What are companies just going to be the same company as you? Of course, they're not going to invest likely in you but to companies that align with what you're trying to build. Similarly, I always advocate for our founders to reach out to other founders that that VC has invested, and that you're interested in talking to ask them, “how has it been working with this VC, particularly during this time? What are the insights or guidance that you could give?” I think founders are more than happy to give you those insights because they may not have had them when they were going through that process. And they may end up giving you that introduction as well.

Meggie: For anyone who is thinking about raising capital who's just looking for support in their business right now, I highly recommend the Vinetta Project and their community. Madelaine, remind us all your Instagram so people can follow and get involved.

Madelaine: Yep, so it's easy. So it's @MadelaineCzufin, the same thing on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram. Feel free to add me on LinkedIn. I do check my LinkedIn messages. So, if you reach out I will actually respond to you. I’m super excited to connect with everyone who's listened in and give some thoughts. As I mentioned, feel free to check out our program and our wine nights are fantastic and a fun way to kind of get together and see what our community is all about.

Meggie: If you're raising capital, if you might want to raise capital, if you raised capital, get involved with the Vinetta Project. Madelaine and her team are so awesome. They've been very generous in opening their contact book to us at PepTalkHer which we’re very grateful for.

“I think it’s important as a founder to maintain that grit and that hustle and make sure you don’t say, “I’m all alone in this.” Continue to reach out to your resources, your community, and your network. Continue to seek out funding.”

You can learn about Madelaine here and The Vinetta Project here.

Madelaine Czufin of The Vinetta Project joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss Funding in the Time of Corona. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by ...

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How to Marie Kondo Your Mind, Your Life and Your Digital Footprint

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke to Anabel Chew about how to Marie Kondo your mind, your life, and your digital footprint. She shared her perspective on decluttering your digital life, physical space, and mental health.

We're gonna be talking all things decluttering and minimizing and minimalizing your life with Anabel Chew. Anabel is the founder of WeBarre. They have a couple of locations across Asia, owning four studios in Singapore, one in Hong Kong, and another two affiliated franchisees in Singapore. She’s built such an amazing culture and community through the studios.

Tell us a little bit about your ethos around decluttering and minimalizing

Anabel: I feel minimalist living is about being tempted to making space and time for the things you love. Taking away everything that distracts you, then you become a little bit more intentional with what you choose to do, with what you own. And that impacts your living, thinking, and even your perspective in life. I think it's a tool for finding freedom.

What drove you to go through this process? Did you have an aha moment about simplifying your life?

Anabel: I thought you might ask that and I was thinking about it as I was brushing my teeth earlier today. I'm not sure where it started. But I think if there was anything when we were kids, my mom is an absolute Nazi for making us pack our rooms. So every three months is like, “Yeah, this is it. I'm bringing a big bag to your room, clean your shit.” And I think it started from that because it felt so good packing it. The irony is that now she's becoming a little bit of a hoarder.

I don't know why but I've always enjoyed that. Honestly, when I first broke up with my first boyfriend, and I recall, telling my husband about this as well, the one thing that my mom did for me, that was amazing, also, because she's not the Chumby, “let's talk” type of person. The best thing that she did for me was, “let's sit down, let's pack your room together.” That took us three or four hours. And I felt like that was exactly what I needed, instead of having like a heart to heart conversation at that point in time. I didn't think that would happen. But then that got rid of being stuck in my head and it gave me something to focus on and, to have that sense of achievement when that was all done.

Meggie: That's so interesting. Let's say that you were moving house, where would you start for someone who is a bit of a hoarder or who has too much stuff?

What's a good, easy place for hoarders to start decluttering?

Anabel: I think it depends on the individual. My preference is always to start with the easy room first and then work my way up. Some people prefer to go super cold turkey and just dig straight into it. I think that's what I would prefer, even at work on a day to day basis when I've had a huge day and I come home and I see like mess around. Honestly, the best thing for me to do at 11 pm is to take out my Dyson and do a quick vacuum of the house and then I feel better.

I'm not fanatical. My house is messy from time to time. But it's the intention behind it, I have the belief that physical clutter leads to mental clutter as well. And I think the latter is even more important.

“Physical clutter leads to mental clutter.”

Meggie: I don't think a lot of people make that kind of connection that if your space is messy, then your mind's gonna be messy.

Can you talk a little bit about your experience with clutter?

Anabel: When you have a lot of things around, that extra clutter, even if it's organized clutter, it creates extra stimuli into your brain, your headspace. It can be mentally exhausting as well. Just imagine having a whole shelf full of 10,000 books or bottles. It looks impressive if it's organized neatly, but the reality is, it's not. Not everyone is a Marie Kondo and who folds clothes in a beautiful way. It's just a lot of stimulus. It's more about the intention and the way of living.

I see our lives having three forms of clutter, whether it's physical clutter,-material things that you own, digital clutter, and mental clutter. And then the thing is how you deal with your physical clutter eventually leads to how you deal with the rest. I feel like being minimalist is being very good at saying, no, or no, I don't need this. It's making smart and sharp decisions on what fits into my life, my values, and what I want from my life. Taking away things that I don't want, and having that clarity and distinction.

Meggie: That's so interesting that you've broken it down into those three categories. You mentioned that not everyone is like Marie Kondo, not everyone folds their underwear like sushi lunch. But Marie Kondo is really interesting. And I have to say, I've read her book and I feel got the idea. I actually have found it super interesting. I'm not fanatical about the exact process. But I do this thing, “does this bring me joy?” If it doesn't, thank you, I'm gonna it to charity, or I'm going to give it away or whatever.

What do you think about the Marie Kondo method? Do you have a method as well?

Anabel: I don't necessarily use her method like you. I have actually not read a book, but I've watched the Netflix series and as you said, it's the idea of what brings you joy and what doesn't, and without being too philosophical in how she interprets it. It's a very simple thing. Do I need this in my life? Or can I make do without?

Meggie: Your business is very successful across Asia. You've got a community of thousands.

How has that attitude helped you grow your business in a way that is manageable? How have you taken this idea of being minimalist into your business?

Anabel: I think whatever we do with WeBarre, and our team, our clients can attest to that is that we are very focused in terms of what we do. Whenever we make a decision, we always say in WeBarre, we have three values and that's empowerment, community, and fun. Every single decision that we make, we go back to these three values even something as simple as renovations or choosing a couch

That whole streamlining your thoughts, does it check this? Does it check that? If it doesn't, then maybe it's not the right decision for us. It might be a nice thing to have, but it may not be something that's right for the business. So having that mental clarity and trying to spear especially in these times because we've never taken our business online. We've never done a zoom virtual class before. The last two weeks have been hugely successful and overwhelming and I think it comes down to not just smart decision making, but also clear-headed decision making and not just doing something because another brand is doing it. But doing something that feels right for us for our brand for this time and for everything else.

Meggie: So you run WeBarre studio, which is obviously an exercise to you. If you talked about mental clutter as being one of those aspects of clutter in our life, how important is exercise and also exercise with the community?

How can exercise simplify your headspace and keep you on track and focused?

Anabel: There are several things I can think of. One is that the 60 minutes that you're in the studio working out, it's a very focused workout. For us, it's not just being physical. I think a lot of stuff goes on in the background to make it an attentional as well. Whether it's the music, the journey, how instructors motivate, we try to pack that 60 minutes. So that you can call WeBarre your happy place. When you come in the next 60 minutes. It's just you and your workout, and you don't think about anything else.

Partitioning yourself, “I'm going to be present. I'm going to be aware. I'm going to be focused in what I'm doing.” So I think that’s a way of saying, “I can wait, my to-do lists can wait, and I just want to do this.” I think one of the best ways to avoid mental clutter, which might come as a surprise to many people, including myself, is to avoid multitasking, actually. Some people are great at multitasking. That's fine. Because the thing is, you are pulling your attention in several different directions. When I want to have a conversation with you, let me just have that conversation with you. If I'm working on something, let me just work on that and I'll be faster, I'll be more committed. I can think with way much more clarity.

Meggie: The multitasking is really interesting, I have to say that I'm a victim to that often. And I know that it doesn't make logical sense, yet for some reason, I think that I can be better than science and still be productive, but obviously, I'm not.

I follow your social media and I love that you are very intentional. You do ask the community when you're with us, please work hard, please sweat. Then when you're out, don't do work, don’t check emails, be with your family, while you're here, please be here and that's really interesting.

Is that something that you and your team set up intentionally as part of the culture?

Anabel: I think it wasn't something that we wrote in the SLP. You know, be present. Do not think about anything else when you're in the class. With everything else that we've done with, whether it's making decisions that are in line with our values or not, it kind of came naturally as something that we would do. If you were to make this an empowering place for your community, then no. I don't want to share that time with something else at work that could be bothering me. So I think it was a natural progression.

For someone who's feeling a bit cluttered in their physical space, mental space, and their digital life, what would you suggest they do as a baby step to work on simplifying?

Anabel: Develop a positive mindset about it. Don't focus on subtracting like, “Oh, I can't have this. I don't want this and all that.” Think about the positive side, like the glass is half full. Choose what to keep instead. Don’t think about subtraction, but think about trying to simplify things. If possible, try to automate, delegate, and outsource.

I ask myself, have I used this in the last three months? Or have I been thinking about this for the last three months? For example, I signed up with TikTok. I've not used it for three months. I think I'm going to delete that out of my phone. That’s the digital clutter that I don't need.

Set a rule for yourself. My husband has a rule. If he buys one item, he has to give away or throw out something that he already owns. Buy quality over quantity. Set a routine for yourself in a Sheldon Cooper kind of way. Maybe not as extreme but set a routine and show that you only buy what you need. Otherwise, it becomes a toxic cycle of buying, throwing, buying, throwing.

Start with the physical first because that's something that you can perceive right away. A lot of people have the misconception that decluttering is reorganizing. I don't think it is. You can't just take everything that you own and reorganize it and call that decluttering in a way. The thing is, out of all these things that you have, you really don't need everything that you have out there. So declutter. Start with your physical spaces. Then clear any apps that don't serve you anymore. Unfollow on friends, any platforms that don't serve you anymore.

Then you can start looking inwards to yourself, whether it's streamlining financial commitment, scheduling, me-time, focusing, listing down your values and priorities. Start that habit of being decisive. What do I want from my life? Do I need this In my life or not? Then hopefully coming to the conclusion that your time is your biggest asset, and you should spend it.

Meggie: I love that and I think something that you touched on that really resonates with me is not thinking about decluttering as a negative and seeing it as what are you going to gain from this? Maybe you're going to take your wardrobe from 20 pieces down to 15. But what a gift to be able to give those five pieces to a friend or to someone who's lost their job, or to donate it to a thrift store or a charity? And someone else is going to get so much joy out of that. Maybe it was amazing and maybe you wore it every day like three years ago but now you don’t. It's lovely to pay it forward and imagine what that could do for someone else.

I also love what you said about buying quality and that was a decision I made a few years ago. For sustainability reasons, it actually was to buy more organic. Often, it's more expensive and so I appreciate doing that by buying one. Knowing that you'll hold on to it for 10 or 15 years rather than the fast fashion that kills the environment.

This is very therapeutic. I can see why WeBarre’s so successful across Asia. You bring wonderful ethos. And I believe your values are very clear. And we're just delighted to have had this time with you.

“Choose what to keep instead. Don’t think about subtraction, but think about trying to simplify things”

You can check out Anabel’s awesome work on Instagram & website.

Anabel Chew of WeBarre joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss A Minimalist's Guide to Decluttering Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signing up ...

We host 15 minute live chats with experts on negotiation, goal setting, handling work politics, and time management. To catch up on our previous discussions with experts, you can visit it here.

Got a story to share or a PepTalk to give? If you'd like us to feature you, please reach out here.

Build Your Social Brand - Give Your Instagram a Facelift

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer chatted with Karina May from the Plann That app crew and shared all things social media, automating analytics, and how to build your social brand.

I think it's a really important time to get your online presence just right when lots of businesses out there aren't able to resume their normal business activities. A lot of businesses pivoting also means plenty of time. So, I guess, really finesse your social brand online which is where Plann can come in and help.

We're seeing lots of businesses bunkering down and just using the opportunity to tweak their online presence. A lot of times, I think that means getting back to the basics of why you started your business. We've had a lot of people saying, I don't know what to post on on my Instagram. This is usually at the moment and that's where we're encouraging people to get back to the basics of why you started your business.

For example, if you're a fitness trainer and you can't work out at the gym at the moment, remembering that you started that business because you were focused on self-care and helping people. That helps you pivot your content and what you might be able to share at this time. So, that's a great thing.

Also, in terms of analytics, Plann has really powerful analytics at the moment. We're all online at crazy times like I was this morning posting. And getting back to having a look at those analytics to see when the best times to post are, where you're going to get the highest engagement, working out what posts are your most engaged posts because again, it's unprecedented times. What used to work might not work now and that's where powerful analytics can really help you uncover that. So you are creating content that better speaks to your audience during this time.

Meggie: Can you talk a little bit about how important analytics is because I think a lot of people don't know that you actually can get analytics on the success of both your Instagram and other social media platforms. Can you talk us through how important that is and how people can access those analytics?

How important is analytics and how can people access that?

Karina: On a platform like Instagram, analytics are available. But sometimes, it's hard to access, often calculating in spreadsheets, and that sort of thing. An app like Plann pulls together all of your analytics, so you can work out things like even your best color palette. We've got some intelligent AI that pulls through what your best color palette is. That way you know what people are responding to.

We've actually got a blogger that uses the platform and she has actually gotten so granular with her analytics that she can tell when a post with a cup of tea with milk versus a post with a cup of tea without milk, which one actually gets the highest engagement. So of course, when she's promoting books, which we're reading right now, her account is going off. She knows that that's a better image to pop up something with a cup of tea with the milk.

It's just something simple like that, that you can tweak. You're already going through the process of posting content daily, you might as well maximize it to make sure that you’re putting out the very best content. There are colors and there are best times to post, which I touched on. So that changes regularly. Previously, it might have been that 5pm - 6pm period when people are commuting. But there is no commute right now. So it's important to know when people if you post content, will engage straight away. That helps with Instagram’s algorithm so that more people will see your content. It's more visible.

Using analytics to be clever about the time of posting, basically helps visibility, helps with engagement, which in turn helps build your influence. I'm guessing that’s what you're trying to do on Instagram if you're business-minded

For people who've got an Instagram account and they're growing at a decent rate, how can they be more successful? What are some tangible steps people can do today that will really help move the needle for them?

Karina: Look at stuff like your analytics. That will help you in terms of what you're actually going to post. And look at your strategy. Plann actually has some strategy functionality. We look at the top themes and give you suggestions. Seven top themes and you can also add your own. We also encourage you to look at your most engaged posts to work out your strategy.

We've got a Plann superstar Jenna Kutcher. She's an influencer and she is all about the top five things to post on your Instagram post. She calls it a JK five. And she'll cycle through posts around weddings, dogs, family, quotes, and a training post as well. That makes sure that her content is always consistent.

When people are expecting a certain thing from a brand, and it's going to be a very cohesive look online. Obviously, online, to people you're unknown to them. So you're trying to build that authority, and people are going to come back to you if they know what to expect from your account.

Meggie: It's so interesting that you mentioned that. We at PepTalkher find Instagram as an amazing channel. We have women globally reaching out to us but it can take up a lot of time. And so for us downloading the Plann That app has saved us so much time. We actually batch out content. We'll upload all of our content to the Plann app, and then drip feed the posting of it.

I would encourage anyone who's posting on the fly, that really using an app like Plann can be a massive game-changer to saving you time, and also saving your hashtags and getting those analytics as well. I think that that's very, very useful. You mentioned Jenna Kutcher, who is amazing. I follow her as well.

Are there any other brands that are doing the best practice? What are these practices to build your social brand?

Karina: What you guys are doing right now. So, you're jumping on the fact that everyone's online. What offer, what value can we add to them? And these Power PepTalk sessions are amazing. Flowing that through as well. Looking at your strategy, holistically, it's not just about Instagram.

Creating your content

So, right now, obviously, we're going live on Instagram. You're adding that content and lots of other channels as well. That's making your content really work in terms of distribution. Back to the batching session, we have a social media cheat sheet at the moment, which is downloadable. It actually takes you through how you can create a week's worth of content in 20 minutes.

One of those things includes a new Canva integration. We're calling it a social match made in heaven because it literally is. But the joy of that for all of Plann is that it really streamlines that content creation even further. You can import your Canva assets directly into Plann without having to download and then re-upload. It definitely helps with that batching and scheduling process, which is what makes Plann so special. And the fact that you can spend your time getting really granular with your analytics and strategy. You don't have to be wasting that time on the actual content creation. You can get straight down to the strategy aspect of things.

Meggie: That's what I love about Plann. Because I think, I just assume, as a small business, that I'm too small for strategy, I don't need to have analytics, and I can't afford to pay a big ad agency. But what's good about the app is it puts all of it in the one place. There's a great free trial that you can use with the app. We will send through a discount code for anyone who wants to subscribe to Plann. We actually have the premium version of Plann, we pay for it because we find it so useful.

You can use PlannxPepTalk20 for a discount if you want to get that annual subscription. It's those baby steps for people who are just starting out and are finding it overwhelming. That's why I love this idea of the cabin fever reliever challenge. We might get on board that as well actually to just try and make some changes given we've got more time on our hands.

Tweaking your bio and highlights

Karina: It can be overwhelming if you're doing everything at once. Especially in analytics, it can be a bit scary. But you can get your nerd on and really deep dive into things. So, the cabin fever reliever just drip-feeds things to look at each day. Often overlooked is literally just tweaking your bio and your highlights.

Highlights are often overlooked. It's part of your bio. It sits right underneath your bio. Batching your content videos like this as “a helpful Q&A”, it's really easy for people to see what you're offering is straightaway. And again, we've actually got a really popular post on Plann about how to make your highlight covers, which seems super simple, but it can be difficult and it contributes to the overall aesthetic. And again, it's utilizing that Canva feature now where you can pull the highlight image that you've created in Canva like directly into Plann so everything is so simple and seamless.

Meggie: I actually have to admit that we don't have very good highlights on our Instagram so that might be a challenge later for my team to work on. When highlights first came out we did it as like “oh, let's test it” and we just haven't changed it. That's a bit of a battle now. I didn't realize that was so important.

Karina: Yeah, it's overall contributing to your bios. You get those 50 words in your bio but then if you think about it, it's got top real estate. They're like why you would do a live as well because it's great. Real estate is right at the top, it's highlighted. The same thing with your highlights especially that's this one or two highlights. It's a great place to highlight your USP. What's so special about your business?

I don't know about you, but I'm just watching videos constantly right now. It's obviously somewhere where you can highlight the most important or most successful video content that you have produced.

Meggie: Some people say the grid and the aesthetic is so important. And then other people say no, it's more about the just getting up in the algorithm and that people don't look at the grid.

How important is the grid these days?

Karina: At Plann, we are definitely favoring stories now. With Plann, that's what's amazing as well, because you can schedule stories. Are stories more important? In terms of engagement, that's what we're seeing. And again, that's another great thing that you can look at analytics to see. And then it's a no brainer, that's just gonna put this in the wind and see actually what definitely has more engagement.

We get more visibility in our stories and our grid these days. But in terms of transparency and conversions, I think a huge part of the grid still, it's not just about the one thing that you've posted. It's about a continual conversation of someone commenting and commenting back and that sort of thing. So, it's a great place to see those conversations take place in the real world and not with stories. It's a lot of DMs and it's not then visible to your whole community, especially if you're offering advice, that sort of thing.

Meggie: What about engagement? Typically with Instagram, it was all about the likes and the comments and then hide the number of likes to try and make it less narcissistic and people want to feel less pressure.

What are you noticing from the analytics at the Plann app that is the best way to engage?

Karina: I think definitely polls on stories on Instagram and the likes. Facebook actually bought likes back. So that Plann will always be on top of the latest tech news, especially like with platforms that we're dealing with every day. Instagram released as well some interactive stickers for small businesses that offer different services right now. For restaurants and that sort of thing where people can actually just tap a sticker and order food through directly from the website. That's showing us, it is all about stories. And yet the engagement is literally on stories with one tap now making it as easy as possible. That's so awesome.

Meggie: We're so grateful for all of these amazing tips. If people want to do the 10-day challenge with one small task today, to get a kick-off social media profile, what is the best way for them to find out?

Karina: Head to plannthat.com and then head to the blog, and it should come up as a pop-up. We're giving a 20% discount code for anyone that would like to try it. But we also have a seven-day free trial. So, that's also a good way to test it out and see what value it offers you and how much time it saves you.

I recommend that if you are doing the 10-day reliever challenge, you can sign up for the seven-day plan trial as well. And then you can maximize what you're getting out of that as well.

It's on Apple and Android app store and we also have a desktop version. That's the most exciting desktop as well. We have camera integration and we're starting to release more features on desktop knowing that it's businesses that are using the desktop version and can share it with a team.

“We’ve had a lot of people saying, I don’t know what to post on on my Instagram. We’re encouraging people to get back to the basics of why you started your business. ”

You can use the code PLANNXPEPTALK20 for 20% off to the annual subscription of plans. Check out Karina’s amazing work on Instagram and website.

Previously, we wrote something about Sending Handwritten Cards in the Digital Age and Productivity Hacks. You might want to go ahead and check it out.

Karina May joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss Build Your Social Brand. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signing up for your invite to the l...

If you have a story to share or a PepTalk to give, we'd love to profile you on our blog here.

Sending Handwritten Cards in the Digital Age

Meggie Palmer Founder & CEO of PepTalkHer chatted with Alexis Monson from Punkpost. They spoke about The Art of Card Writing. Learn from Alexis how she started Punkpost and how a simple gesture of sending cards affects people.

Meggie: I met Alexis at The Wing a couple of years ago. And for anyone who hasn't used Punkpost, it's an app. It basically lets you send a handwritten card to anyone from your phone. It's not so expensive either, is it?

How much does sending a card with Punkpost cost?

Alexis: The first card is free if you download the app, and then no card startup $5.99. I think and a full date card is $7. So yeah, we try to keep it comparable to what you pay in the store.

Meggie: Yeah, and it's good for people like me who personally love handwritten cards. I love writing people notes, but I've got to be honest, sometimes I am a little lazy and I don't get to the post office or buy a stamp. So I love that Punkpost kind of make it easy. You can go to a meeting with a client and just send it straight from that.

Can you tell us a little bit about why you started Punkpost?

Alexis: I guess it was just I've always loved sending handwritten cards and receiving handwritten cards, but my husband, but at the time, he was traveling a lot. And so one time, I just sent a card to his hotel beforehand. And he was just like, so touched, moved by it. And I guess it was like, you see the big reactions these cards get. And it's kind of what you're talking about. Like I think people have the best intentions of sending cards like I also am guilty of buying all these cute cards and then like sticking them in a little shoebox and sticking them under my bed and that's why there's a stain.

So our whole idea was like “God, these cards, they're so simple.” They kind of take a lot of steps to put together so if we could just help people make good on their good intentions and like they have a good intention of sending someone a card. Why don't we just do the lifting for them?

What is it about receiving a handwritten card that is so special?

Alexis: But I think it's even more than that. It's kind of like, you know, you can always be there for your friend's birthday or like when you really want to be there for someone. So it's a physical way to like, be there without eating there. There's something about sending a card that I feel like people really are so genuine with each other and so kind and able to show their love that way.

I also think there's just something about a card. I could get the nicest email or text in the world but you won't go back to it like, you know, these cards will make you feel something like 100%. People hang it up on the wall or put it up next to their desk and it's just something you continually go back to and it's like a continual reminder that someone loves you, is thinking now view and I don't know what they're just like have this sort of connecting faster to them.

Do you feel right now that people are craving connection even more so and maybe actually the written word is even more powerful at the moment?

Alexis: When I started Punkpost it was kind of during the 2016 election, which was also crazy and people were really confused and I think also feeling like they were divided and like so I think even then it felt like super important for us to be like, let people have a way to talk to each other in like a really positive way. support each other, um, through words.

So now I think we're seeing that again. I mean, it's kind of like we keep going through these crazy things. But I think right now, we have been seen it these past couple weeks that you know, people… you can't be with your loved ones right now like physically but it's like a go wave for people. You know, it's hard. It's like, especially for some people who really need that like constant physical connection or just to see family members like your grandparents in bed. It's hard for them to be alone right now. I'm so sure of it. And like the cards we've seen are a good way to be like, for example, Grandma, Grandpa I still think of you. Know we love you. We'll get there as soon as we can. Or even people with birthdays, you know, having a birthday right now. You're gonna have a party at home, which is still fun, but like it's a way for your friends to show up for you.

What are your tips like for people who don't think they have good handwriting or don't really know where to start? What are your top tips for sending a handwritten card?

Alexis: That's a thing about a card. Like it doesn't need to be something so prolific or poetic. You know, it's just that someone took the time to think of you they send you a card. So I think just telling someone you're thinking of them. inside jokes are always super cute, like something that you and that other person share your love of just mentioning that I think puts a smile on someone's face.

If you have the ability or desire to like, make doodles or make it colorful, I think, you know, just that, like, speaks to people too. I think that's the thing. I think it doesn't you don't need to overthink it. You have a relationship with this person, and you're just telling them you love them.

Meggie: Well, I think that's something about Punkpost as well, right? It's not just a normal card. So as I said, the app is free. And you can actually also use the code PEPTALKHER, and you get a free card anyway. And then you can actually just use the code PEPTALKHER and you'll get another free card, which is cool.

But yeah, I often use it. I'll come out of a meeting and then I'll just send a card to a client or if I know someone's going to begin, anniversary coming up, for a birthday, I can just send it. You can send them internationally as well. So it's not just for cards in the US and they're really pretty.

Alexis: Yeah, I mean, they are super cute. So, um, one thing sometimes people get confused when they post the front of the card is like if you were going to a card so I say you pick that but then the inside like we can write your message something really cute like this. Yeah, Michael who is one of my co-workers, he just sent me this really funny one of me.

Okay, so yeah, you can send I don't know, Meggie. What kind do you send like more formal ones that you send like colorful fun ones?

Meggie: Yeah, good question. So I didn't vote so you can choose your handwriting style. So if it's like a professional card or sometimes I have to send a condolence card if there's been you know, someone's passed away, so I will just say, Hey, this is like a VIP work thing. Keep it simple. No, like love hearts, or like fancy lettering. Or obviously if it's like for a birthday I'll be like, yeah, go nuts. Do what you want. So I do a bit of a combo.

Alexis: Cool. No, that's good. Yeah, and you know, I think that's the thing like right now like probably a lot of people have stationery they can make use of right now but like, also if you can get out, you know, can totally help you out and our artists all work from home. So they're all doing this in the comfort of their home right now. They're just we're just like around to help people out if you need it.

So, but yeah, we have fun and it's kind of like you really see what's going on in the world through these trends. You know, I mean, people really talk about what's going on. So it's we saw right away that people were gravitating toward Punkposts when they started so we've written like, a few articles on like, how to be there for someone on their birthday during this, how to be there for your grandparents during this, or just like people that reach out in general who might need a little extra support right now.

Is practicing gratitude being part of the reason why you started Punkpost?

Alexis: Yeah, I mean, I think in general, I guess it is gratitude, appreciating the people in your life and like, taking moment. I mean, I feel like I can't even keep up with the number of thank you’s. I feel like I need to send or should be sending.

So yeah, I think it does help you. A lot of times you're like, “Oh, I need to thank someone for this and that” and just a card helps you really show that gratitude. I think when you're able to show that gratitude to the extent that you want to, I think sometimes it's so hard to let someone know just how thankful you are. So like being able to extend that gratitude in a way that really feels like it's showing the level that you have helps you feel better too and like so I think it's like a good cycle for yourself to get into and just focusing on the good and what you do have is always just like the good thing to do in life.

So when we sold our house we have one that says, life is tough but so are you. So that one's currently sold out. We're getting more in and then our crew in general kind of like funny ones. We have one that says, I love you and your butt is perfect. That one's forever popular pre-Corona or not. So I think kind of more like thank you, love you, miss you. Ones that have been popular, like lately, Sending the vibes, Miss your face… that kind of thing.

Meggie: Very cool. I just wanted to see if there's anything else that you wanted to let people know that you think that they should be thinking about when they're using their own stationery at home to send cards right now or if they're going to be using Punkpost.

What are your tips for people to keep in mind if they want to send a card?

Alexis: Yeah, I think just like if you think of someone send them a card. I think a lot of times people get hung up on like, oh, I don't want to sound a certain way or I'm worried about my handwriting. They think like that. It's so much beyond that, like, yes. When you send a postcard that kind of writing is the next level. That's part of what we're doing.

But like, I think, don't hesitate. Like, even if you're someone that you're like, Oh, is this person here feel weird getting a card for me? I can guarantee they won't like I've sent birthday cards to people I haven't talked to in years, and they've reached out that like, Oh my god, that was so nice. So like, anyone you're thinking of, that you think could use a little love or you just want to give them love. Send them a card you like will break bread and they'll totally make their day.

“I could get the nicest email or text in the world but you won’t go back to it like, you know, these cards will make you feel something like 100%. People hang it up on the wall or put it up next to their desk and it’s just something you continually go back to.”

You can check out the Punkpost app for free on the App store, and you can follow them @Punkpost on Instagram as well. You can use the code PEPTALKHER to get a promo. Check out more info on Alexis here.

Alexis Monson joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss The Art of Card Writing. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signing up for your invite to th...

If you have a story to share or a PepTalk to give, we'd love to profile you on our blog here.

Productivity Hacks

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer chatted with Liv Schreiber, a content creator and coach based in New York. Liv shared about how random acts of kindness can change one’s life and most especially her productivity hacks.

What’s your story and how did you end up where you are today?

Liv: I have always felt like helping people is my passion and I wanted to figure out how exactly I could do that. And so I graduated a year early from Wisconsin, and instead of taking the traditional four-year college route, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna become a real estate agent.

That is my calling. I love people. I like sales. I'm still doing it so I ended up getting into real estate, got my real estate license, and it was so not me. It was totally not what I expected. I wanted to be like a million dollar listing with Steve Golden. It just was just not what I expected.

So, I started Instagramming about it under my desk and that ended up sparking my love of branding and communicating with people over social and I started a digital marketing agency a year later.

Meggie: One of the things that you talk a lot about on social media is productivity hacks, getting stuff done, like motivating yourself, can you run us through?

What are your top three tips for people who want to stay productive?

Post It note hack

Liv: Okay, so number one is my Post It note hack, which is a Post It note calendar. I set up every single month and actually I have IGTV all about it. So if you need to know more about it, it's incredible. You can head to my IGTV Liv Schreiber and the two other things are definitely working out.

Working out and Music

I think you need to get your endorphins in, or flowing. And number three is I abide by the power of music. I think that it has such an effect and can really change a mood. So, I also have a ton of different happy playlists and podcasts that I am always constantly filling my brain with because I really feel that you have to treat yourself like you’re a kindergartener, and you always have to be responsible for what you're feeding. Not only yourself but your mind.

Meggie: That’s really a cool concept. Can you talk a little bit about that?

What do you mean you have to treat yourself like a kindergartener?

Liv: Yes. You know when we're little our moms or dads are the people taking care of us. They're constantly monitoring what we're taking in and they're always protecting us. “Don't watch anything PG13 and don't do this." And once you get to be a certain age, I think you have to take that on for yourself. So, it's about reclaiming responsibility for what you allow inside of you, and that maybe everything from surrounding yourself with positive people, cutting off the toxic ends. I always say cut off your dead ends and by dead ends, I don't just mean your hair. So I think it's a combination of just filling your mind with good things.

Meggie: What was the moment in your life that kind of made you realize that?

How did you come to realize that you needed to cut off the dead ends, that you needed to surround yourself with great music, and positive people?

Liv: I don't think there was one specific moment. I think it just has been a culmination of my whole life and just knowing that I deserve to be surrounded by people who lift me up. Time is of the essence. Time is everything. Time is our most valuable, valuable thing we have here which we all know. Why spend precious time on anything that's not going to lift you up?

Meggie: Yeah, that's so true. For those who follow you, they know that like your positive energy is very infectious. How do you kind of keep that energy going? Do you ever get tired? Or like what is your advice for other people who are like, sure I get motivated in the morning to be positive. But then as the day goes on, I kind of wait.

What's your advice to keep positive energy last the whole day?

Liv: I think we're all human. And the people following me know that you know, I'm not perfect at all in any way, shape, or form. My mother, if she's watching definitely can tell you that. But I think it's about not being down on yourself and don't knock yourself down. I'm taking a Yale online course right now. It's free. It's on Coursera and it's free. It's all about how we as humans are used to comparing and how comparison is the thief of joy. But at the same time, we can't help it.

So whenever you feel as though you're most of the time, the dismantling of joy comes from the fact that you're comparing yourself to someone else, whether you see it on TV or on social media, you just feel like you're not doing enough. So I think that what I learned in my happiness class, actually last night at 3am, because I can't ever sleep is that whenever you feel like you're comparing yourself to anyone else, you actually have to take a step back and run through your head that what you're doing is vocalism. And you're actually just focusing on one aspect of someone's life or of your life when in reality, there are so many different entities that make up a person.

“The dismantling of joy comes from the fact that you’re comparing yourself to someone else.”

Meggie: Yeah, that's really interesting. I love that. One of the things that you do a lot of work in is with women who are at college or maybe women who are in light levels of high school, college and then the early stages of their career, what are some of the trends that you hear from them? What are some of the biggest challenges that they're facing? Because you do a lot of coaching and you have your own agency. What is the some of the things that keep coming up for young women? Because at PepTalkHer, our mission is all about closing the gender pay gap and giving people the right balance, that they need to advocate and negotiate for themselves. So I'm really interested to hear from your community.

What are the challenges that you're observing from the women you work with? What are some of the pieces of advice that you're giving on a regular basis?

Liv: I think a lot of it right now is uncertainty and how to deal with it. Internships are not happening and jobs are not happening and it's a conversation that really everyone is going through, not just girls in college. And to that, I always say you can't just have a plan A and a plan B. There always have to have a plan ABCDEFG.

For those people who are stuck or waiting on one thing, I always say don't put all your eggs in one basket. It's just like stocks or investing. Like, if you're waiting on a certain brand to answer you, why not send out 50 more personal, detailed emails to people or pitch yourself? You know, I think nothing is promised. And you just have to make sure that you're constantly working to ensure that you have moving parts and pieces and just it's like this is the same reason why we have multiple friends.

We don't just rely on one best friend for everything. No, I have a best friend who is super deep, who I can talk to about theories of the universe. And then I have another best friend who I love to go out with and it doesn't mean one girl is better than the other. It just means that like I need all of these people to better myself and that's the same for internships or feeling like you are missing out on something, don't just rely on one thing.

Meggie: That's great advice. I love that, that you can't get everything. You shouldn't expect to get all things from one person. And so it's great to kind of have a variety of different people to help you. One of the things that you've set up during the pandemic is a program to support young women who are looking for internships who have had internships canceled because of everything going on.

What is it and how can people get involved if they have a company where they can offer a role or if they're looking for a role?

Liv: Thank you for asking. That's a great question. And so this idea came to me randomly in the shower and I was like, “Oh, well, should I do it?” I don't know. But I ended up just going for it. And you know, I think that there's something to say there about even people who you feel are the most confident or you know, have it all together still feel like anyone else. And I created this document because I realized that the two things that we're missing in this world right now are acts of kindness, acts of kindness for service people, and medics, and also jobs and internships. So how can we combine the three to ensure that we're hitting all those birds with one stone? That's the violence, but we're tapping two birds with one stone.

So I figured, why not come up with a list of hundreds of different internships that I can offer to other people in exchange for them doing a kind act or a kind deed and tagging me and tagging three friends who also need internships so that way we can circulate not just internships and opportunities because there are so many out there, but also so that we can circulate hope and kindness and smiles so the internship doc has been up for two weeks and it's been absolutely incredible.

So anyone can find the post that says “Thank you, we love you” on my Instagram page to access the available opportunities and how to do it.

“I realized that the two things that we’re missing in this world right now are acts of kindness, acts of kindness for service people, and medics, and also jobs and internships. ”

Meggie: That's so great. And I feel like, at the moment, the world needs more and more acts of kindness, more and more acts of kindness, I should say, one of my good friends, Adriana Picker. She's a botanical Illustrator and she had her fifth book released just at the very start of all of this. And she was kind of like, on one hand, she was a bit upset. But on the other hand, she was like, it's not about me, how can we survive during this time? And so she and I actually did a thing as well, where we had people message us if they knew a healthcare worker, to just randomly surprise them with a book. So I've been loving watching all the things that women in your community have been doing as well. It's nice to have that reminder that it's very easy to do one small act of kindness.

For people who want to keep in touch with people who want to learn more, what's the best way to hear more about your agency, and like how can we connect? Do we have internship opportunities?

Well, you can definitely send me a DM. I like to say my phone is now a part of my body. So I always answer everyone and everything and I always will. And if you want to listen to internship opportunity, the same goes for you got to do a kind deed. I like to say that no one is excluded and no one is too good for doing kindness. So, although it is incredible for anyone who does want to offer internships, I'm still holding you to the same tier as everyone else, and everyone just has to do a kind deed and they can access pretty much everything and more positivity hacks, kindness and just overall authentic self on my Instagram.

Meggie: It's been so lovely to hear more about your productivity hacks and your positivity hacks. And everyone can check out at @livschreiber on Instagram. She's awesome!

“No one is excluded and no one is too good for doing kindness. ”

Liv Schreiber joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss Productivity Hacks. Join us for the Daily #PowerPepTalk by signing up for your invite to the liv...

We host 15 minute live chats with experts on negotiation, goal setting, handling work politics, and time management. To catch up on our previous discussions with experts, you can visit it here.

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How to Build an Online Community

PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer chatted with Josh Pugh of America Josh. Josh spoke about his experience, the importance of building a community online, and how you can get started. There was a lot of wisdom shared.

I am America Josh. I moved to New York three years ago and when I got here I realized that there was nothing really set up in the way of structured information for people that have just arrived in the city or arrived in the US. I thought wouldn't it be handy if there was something out there that had all the information that basically people on Facebook groups are asking over and over again? Wouldn't it be handy if there was something that brought it all into one spot? It got built a bit of a community around that and suddenly America Josh was formed. 

It was to be completely honest, a bit of a side hustle, and in New York, you know everyone's got three different jobs and they're doing ten different things. So this was mine. 

I realized quickly that there were lots of people that were going through the same thing that I was going through and asking the same questions. I started writing blogs and started collaborating with different groups and different companies and different people to try and hit all that information in one spot. It's turned into a community of, right now, about three and a half thousand people all across the United States started in New York. So I'm in New York, obviously, it's centered there but it's starting to really extend down the coast and across to the west coast and it's now a community and a website that all sort of feeds into a site full of tips and tricks, and stories. It's trying to soften the blow when you land, basically.  

Meggie: With everything going on, obviously the economy is in a lot of trouble. But it's interesting that people are craving community and connection right now. I think we all have that kind of fear around the economy. We're all turning to the community. For people who are sitting at home, who are maybe feeling a little bit isolated, given the current Corona situation, what would you say to those people?

What is the key tip for building a community? When you move cities, move countries, when you may be isolated at home, what's something tangible that people can do to help them? 

Josh: I think being honest is a really important part of it. I don't mean you can pretend about the community that you're from and the community that you're trying to build. Me being an ex-pat going to the US, I could build around exactly what I was doing. I think as you said, especially at this time, you want to find that little niche. Something that's just like you in a bigger situation. So if for me it's people that have moved over in the greater US that's kind of my niche. 

I think it's you communicating a lot. It's making sure that you've got an honest portrayal of the information and that you've researched it. You aren't just simply there trying to sell a particular thing, where you aren't trying to navigate every one particular path. You're accommodating and you're welcoming and inviting. I think all of those elements. Especially in the time like now where people are freaking out, they are uncertain about what's going on outside and they want some comfort.  

They want to be able to trust someone. I think that's the biggest thing. They don't look for any particular sort of piece of advice. They're just looking for someone they can trust and someone they can look to in a time of good times and say “what a great recommendation for a restaurant, Josh.” But then, in the bad times, they can be like you know, in my case, you know coronavirus is impacting people legally so they're wondering. Know they've got crucial questions that are fundamental to their future, their lives and I think that's when they can look to you and trust you on the same level. So it doesn't really matter about the content. It's trust and confidence. 

Meggie: If you go on Instagram right now, everyone's going live? Everyone's sharing. Everyone's connecting. I would imagine Instagram and Facebook have probably had you know their biggest spike in use and allotments ever. Why are we humans craving it so much right now?

Why do you think the community is so important for us and why at the moment at this time are we all kind of calling everybody we haven't spoken to for 10 years?

Josh: I think you're exactly right. I think we're all looking for something that's familiar. And I think when everything else gets scary when everything else gets extra uncertain, extra unfamiliar, you're looking for the one little thing that you can narrow down on, sort of burrow in on and say “this is me. This is my core.” 

For a lot of people that do travel, again I'll use some samples that are relevant to my community. But the people that have come here, they do have the familiarity of their hometown. They've got the familiarity of their home country. That's their identity. They narrow down in a time where they don't know what else to look for. So they find that bit and they say you know “I've got this little morsel, at least I know that. I'm confident of that. I'm not sure about the rest of the world. I'm not sure about the economy. I'm not sure where my job might be. I'm not sure about anything else outside but at least I've got that.”  

I think that's what we're seeing. The engagement on Facebook groups for us at the moment is growing outrageously fast because people are asking every hour of the day. There are a few different questions that are popping up and people are going “oh my god! what does this mean to me?” 

You can talk to that community that knows your background because they've all lived it before. They're all part of that same kind of collective, that same community. So I think all of those little moving pieces start to make it feel like you need to reach out. You need some community to talk to, someone you've got a nice base. 

Meggie: Back in the olden days when you know humans used to sit around a campfire. It's kind of the same thing as a campfire. I think fashion designer, Karen Walker, we both spoke at a vogue event maybe 12 months ago now. She uses that analogy of a community. Social media, it's a campfire right. Like you're there to share. You're not there to dictate. You're not very young, you're not there to sell. You're there to share and like to exchange information and I just love that analogy.

Josh: I think it's exactly right. I think that collaborative nature. But I think for me when you talk about those stories and say how important they are, I completely agree. I think the one thing that I've really learned quite quickly is that vulnerability is a big part of the story that I tell. Because people, nobody wants to be vulnerable. I'm a 32-year-old who moved over. I'm confident I know what I'm doing. I know the world and I got to New York and my story is that I didn't know how to order a sandwich at a bodega. It's one of the most ridiculous stories ever and it sounds outrageous. 

For those of you who haven't been to New York, corner store deli, kind of sandwich bar, I walked in and they sort of said what do you want. I'm standing there and thinking I am a business-owning man, I've done things and I don't know how to order a sandwich. Telling that story to people, immediately, their faces would light up. They'd be like, “oh my god! I went to the mix right like I was trying to catch the train and I couldn't work out how to do it. But a whole line of people formed behind me and I didn't know how to scan my ticket.” Some are different but they're sort of silly stories but people gravitate towards them. As you said, it's like being around the campfire. It's like sitting there and saying, no! Oh my god! This thing happened today or you know I had a terrible day or I just want to talk through something. 

You're not necessarily looking for someone to fix it. You just want to get it off your chest and I think America Josh has certainly built on the fact that this idea, that you're not going to be good at this. You can't move internationally and expect that you're going to land on your feet and just run. It's going to suck a little bit of it. You know you might like the bigger picture and on the whole, that's going to go really well. But there's going to be elements of it that you should detest and you'll be sad and you'll think, I'm no good at this. And having that community means that you can ask that question and say, hey as anyone lives through this and not have to reinvent the wheel every single time. 

The content that I'm writing is very much you know oh trying to order a sandwich, get there and write the story of how I ordered a sandwich. There is an article. The third one I wrote on how to order in a bodega. There's no sign that says as you could order. Do you know what he asked me was do you want that in a hero? And a hero now, I think it's only in New York, even that's a big role but that means absolutely nothing. I'm thinking, Spider-man, Superman. No. I'll just stick to bread and it sounds ridiculous and but you look like, we feel like an idiot for a few seconds then you realize you shouldn't have to feel like that. 

Then you know it's completely fair to be standing there and in the unknown environment that you're in and say “I don't know.” That's where the community you can say “I don't know you, do feel comfortable” because the other people in that community are probably in the same position and you start to feel like you've got a teammate. You've got someone beside you and it's trying to reinforce that it's trying to make sure that all those people around in that community are getting that support.

Can you just talk about when you grow a community and then you turn it into a business? What’s one of the benefits of having a strong community, and then creating revenue essentially?

Josh: I think networking, we all kind of hate the word and we all hate the concept of business networking, but I think it is valuable. I moved from Adelaide, South Australia. So I moved from a relatively very small city in the grand scheme of things to a very big city and having that network and those referral networks, for example, is essential in Adelaide. Because there aren't that many people to choose from. You need to know who to trust and when I got to New York I thought it would all be based on merits. You'd be straight up and down what your resume looks like basically and that's how you'd get jobs. But it turns out, it's not. 

It's the community that you've built. It's the networks. It's the people you can talk to because the universe is true. There are so many people in New York that you don't know who to trust. So if the exact same problem as you have in a small town or a small city as you do in a big city. I think once you build that community and you build that trust and people do see that you're vulnerable. 

 So for me, the business has always been about telling people where my shortcomings are. So it's, “we do ABC really, really well but DD we don't do.” And it shocked makers. When I got to New York that's not the language that people use. When they do business here and it's not the sort of language people use very much in general. They don't say they have vulnerabilities. They don't say they aren't perfect. They say you know whatever you want, we'll take care of it.

And I think we all know that can't be true. You can't be perfect at everything and having that you know community support. People that have seen you when you are at your best or haven't seen you when you might be a little bit vulnerable or when you've got a problem. You can segue that into saying, “now you've seen you can trust me. You've seen and it's genuine. You know this is not some scam.” They were generally, genuinely giving up that information people can then say, “well I don't know when we're talking about business. So we're talking about some professional elements I'm willing to trust you with. I'm willing to follow your recommendation.”  

People now will follow. You know if I say I recommend, maybe for something, they'll say “I trust Josh because based on you know the segue from the community that I was a part of to now the business that I'm involved with I'm willing to trust and trust and trust and trust.” And it keeps sort of flowing on like that. I think that's something that only exists when you’re a part of something and once you've been in a good time just like I’ve said before with the coronavirus and everything that's going on at the moment. These are the darker days. The harder times when you've had someone through the good times and it was easy and you still trust them now is the time you get to rely on them and you can sort of call on those networks and call on those trusts. 

Meggie: It's so interesting you bring up relationships during tough economic times. I like what you said as well Josh is that like when you're building a community, honesty and vulnerability are so powerful. And I think people are willing to give a lot as well when you kind of share those shortcomings. The necessity in this day and age to kind of share quite openly.

 Josh: I think it is and I think we want to know the interview question, know what aren't you good at, and we Google. We look up what story details so that you look good and sometimes it's always very easy to see when people have done that and having those genuine people around in the community means that they see it by nature of just being a part of it. As opposed to you having to be prompted and tell a story and sometimes it's better that they've been a part of it and they've seen it moment for a moment as it happens and then they can engage with you. Like, I saw when that happened and I saw how you dealt with that problem and now I'm willing to trust you. I think it's really difficult to be vulnerable and in a market where it's going to get more difficult over the coming weeks and months. I think it's going to get even more difficult because you don't want to show that you are vulnerable. You don't want to show that you've got weaknesses but I think there's great value in doing that because it does show people that you're not perfect. 

 None of us are perfect. We're all struggling and you know some way, I'm nothing. Like I've got food here and I'm happy but there are issues always in the background that I might be a little bit personally worried about or know things that I'm always thinking about. And I think having someone close to you having a network around, that having a community around, that can highlight that without having to actively do. 

Meggie: I'm noticing at PepTalkHer that a lot of clients that we're working with at the corporate level, they're also looking to build community. They're building a community in New York around people in the telecom industry and then like Salesforce is a big client of ours, is building a very big community of women in sales not with the intention of selling Salesforce products but just the intention of supporting and building community. It's really interesting that it's not just like us as individuals, it's businesses as well that are looking to build those communities so they can really help support it and pay it forward which I find quite interesting.

 Josh: I think it's important. I think there is an element for it having to happen a little bit organically. I think that's something that I've seen, some try to force it too much and they say effectively welcome to our family and you’re now just part of it and that I don't think it works. I think it does need to happen that you now find something that already exists. Find that niche. Find those groups and bring them and I think you can't just say to someone, “we're building a community. You're now our newest remember” because that doesn't give anyone the sense that they're actually part of anything. 

If they subscribe, if they're interested because they see some value, they see a tangible something that they can get an answer from, I think that's when people start to gravitate towards it. And so if you find someone and find a small group that you can answer a question or if you find a small group that all have something in common and facilitate that, that can grow a community inside a bigger community and that inside a bigger group. I think slowly but surely, businesses can do it really effectively and then people do have something's been bad at work or if they want to talk to someone, they do have the people in their community around them to go to and to say “help, I need some assistance.” That can't be forced. 

Should you enhance the community that exists already or should you start a new one?

Meggie: Because there are a lot of Facebook groups out there. There's a lot of Instagram accounts, a lot of businesses. I would say that the community takes time and you're not going to build 110, 000 women or men or whoever it is in your community overnight. That literally took them three or four years and that's astronomical. So I would say that if you're in it for the long haul, go for it but maybe start to feel what’s lacking. You could start in that area. What do you think?

Josh: Completely, in my opinion, I think enhancing and working with other communities or adjacent networks and things is the best way to do it. America Josh, I'm very much gone with the idea that supporting the things that already exist and being complementary to them is the best way. I'm not trying to take over everything they do because they've probably got a niche that is slightly different from what I'm looking at and I think you can, therefore, be a part of it. 

I think you do genuinely mean to be a part of it and you need to contribute to it and enhance it and then you might find that you've built a niche that is slightly different. You can then sort of say, hold on I'm gonna build on this element of what I've now built and grow it because you don't necessarily need to start by walking and saying, I don't think anyone really wants to walk in and say like, I've now got a crew. You now join this group, that's it. I think people want to say you know who they are. You like why I trust you and I think that comes from the heart, seeing and building on something that already exists.

Meggie: I thought we'd wrap up with our top three tips for building community. I'm gonna rattle off a couple of mine Josh and then I'd love you to close it off for us. I reckon the key thing is to have your own voice, to be really clear in your tone of voice because as I said you are different from anyone else and so I can just own that. That's what I think is really cool. I think communicating and sometimes over-communicating stuff that you think is boring is often very interesting to your community. And the other thing that I would say is taking this idea of give, give, get. So like giving to your community. Giving, giving, and not expecting in return immediately. I think it's really important to kind of build that trust. What would you say?

What are your top three tips for building a community?

Find your niche

Josh: Realistically, I think it is finding that niche. I think it's finding a particular group but then offering a lifetime at the moment where I can Google something and get 45 million results and I think some people, a lot of people, and most people now just want to be told what is the answer. It might not be the only answer and I get that but what is your preferred answer and giving someone it's simple to step by step of “here's the way to answer that.” That's number one. 

Be honest and be present

I think honesty is important. I think it's really crucial and I think in addition to that it's being present to curate. I think there are lots of loud voices that you'll find when you're building a community and you'll find that some people are very quiet but they're fantastic community members and you need to be there to moderate and sort of equivocate those two volumes and make sure that everyone in the community is being heard. 

Don’t always take criticisms

And three, I've got a controversial one for my number three. It’s “don't always take criticism”. So, early on people would give me feedback and say “I didn't like the ABC part of this dinner that I went to with you”. We sort of live in a world where you meant to do that customer's always right mentality. I do think you need to listen to community members, don't get me wrong. But I do think there are some times where you can say “no, I believe in this idea for this community. I believe that this is the right way to do it.” And I think we have this tendency like when you're starting a small business, you want to take on all the work you possibly can. You might take on things that aren't quite right for you. 

I think it's the same for the community. You might take on some people that aren't quite right for you. And it's okay to drop people from the community and that sounds brutal but I think it's okay. To say like you don't fit into my niche. I think we want to be all-inclusive and I think you should absolutely try but sometimes you have to say like I don't think this is working and I still believe in my mission for my community. So I think you are allowed to be a little bit brazen, a little bit confident that you've got a good idea. Listen to others but don't necessarily always bend to the will of everyone that contributes.

“It’s making sure that you’ve got an honest portrayal of the information and that you’ve researched it. You aren’t just simply there trying to sell a particular thing, where you aren’t trying to navigate every one particular path. You’re accommodating and you’re welcoming and inviting.”

You can check out more info on Josh’s website here.

America Josh joins Meggie Palmer from PepTalkHer to discuss building community and the power of connection. How can you support others & grow a space for oth...

Do you have a story to share or a PepTalk to give? If you'd like us to feature you, please reach out here.