PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke to Anabel Chew about how to Marie Kondo your mind, your life, and your digital footprint. She shared her perspective on decluttering your digital life, physical space, and mental health.
We're gonna be talking all things decluttering and minimizing and minimalizing your life with Anabel Chew. Anabel is the founder of WeBarre. They have a couple of locations across Asia, owning four studios in Singapore, one in Hong Kong, and another two affiliated franchisees in Singapore. She’s built such an amazing culture and community through the studios.
Tell us a little bit about your ethos around decluttering and minimalizing
Anabel: I feel minimalist living is about being tempted to making space and time for the things you love. Taking away everything that distracts you, then you become a little bit more intentional with what you choose to do, with what you own. And that impacts your living, thinking, and even your perspective in life. I think it's a tool for finding freedom.
What drove you to go through this process? Did you have an aha moment about simplifying your life?
Anabel: I thought you might ask that and I was thinking about it as I was brushing my teeth earlier today. I'm not sure where it started. But I think if there was anything when we were kids, my mom is an absolute Nazi for making us pack our rooms. So every three months is like, “Yeah, this is it. I'm bringing a big bag to your room, clean your shit.” And I think it started from that because it felt so good packing it. The irony is that now she's becoming a little bit of a hoarder.
I don't know why but I've always enjoyed that. Honestly, when I first broke up with my first boyfriend, and I recall, telling my husband about this as well, the one thing that my mom did for me, that was amazing, also, because she's not the Chumby, “let's talk” type of person. The best thing that she did for me was, “let's sit down, let's pack your room together.” That took us three or four hours. And I felt like that was exactly what I needed, instead of having like a heart to heart conversation at that point in time. I didn't think that would happen. But then that got rid of being stuck in my head and it gave me something to focus on and, to have that sense of achievement when that was all done.
Meggie: That's so interesting. Let's say that you were moving house, where would you start for someone who is a bit of a hoarder or who has too much stuff?
What's a good, easy place for hoarders to start decluttering?
Anabel: I think it depends on the individual. My preference is always to start with the easy room first and then work my way up. Some people prefer to go super cold turkey and just dig straight into it. I think that's what I would prefer, even at work on a day to day basis when I've had a huge day and I come home and I see like mess around. Honestly, the best thing for me to do at 11 pm is to take out my Dyson and do a quick vacuum of the house and then I feel better.
I'm not fanatical. My house is messy from time to time. But it's the intention behind it, I have the belief that physical clutter leads to mental clutter as well. And I think the latter is even more important.
“Physical clutter leads to mental clutter.”
Meggie: I don't think a lot of people make that kind of connection that if your space is messy, then your mind's gonna be messy.
Can you talk a little bit about your experience with clutter?
Anabel: When you have a lot of things around, that extra clutter, even if it's organized clutter, it creates extra stimuli into your brain, your headspace. It can be mentally exhausting as well. Just imagine having a whole shelf full of 10,000 books or bottles. It looks impressive if it's organized neatly, but the reality is, it's not. Not everyone is a Marie Kondo and who folds clothes in a beautiful way. It's just a lot of stimulus. It's more about the intention and the way of living.
I see our lives having three forms of clutter, whether it's physical clutter,-material things that you own, digital clutter, and mental clutter. And then the thing is how you deal with your physical clutter eventually leads to how you deal with the rest. I feel like being minimalist is being very good at saying, no, or no, I don't need this. It's making smart and sharp decisions on what fits into my life, my values, and what I want from my life. Taking away things that I don't want, and having that clarity and distinction.
Meggie: That's so interesting that you've broken it down into those three categories. You mentioned that not everyone is like Marie Kondo, not everyone folds their underwear like sushi lunch. But Marie Kondo is really interesting. And I have to say, I've read her book and I feel got the idea. I actually have found it super interesting. I'm not fanatical about the exact process. But I do this thing, “does this bring me joy?” If it doesn't, thank you, I'm gonna it to charity, or I'm going to give it away or whatever.
What do you think about the Marie Kondo method? Do you have a method as well?
Anabel: I don't necessarily use her method like you. I have actually not read a book, but I've watched the Netflix series and as you said, it's the idea of what brings you joy and what doesn't, and without being too philosophical in how she interprets it. It's a very simple thing. Do I need this in my life? Or can I make do without?
Meggie: Your business is very successful across Asia. You've got a community of thousands.
How has that attitude helped you grow your business in a way that is manageable? How have you taken this idea of being minimalist into your business?
Anabel: I think whatever we do with WeBarre, and our team, our clients can attest to that is that we are very focused in terms of what we do. Whenever we make a decision, we always say in WeBarre, we have three values and that's empowerment, community, and fun. Every single decision that we make, we go back to these three values even something as simple as renovations or choosing a couch
That whole streamlining your thoughts, does it check this? Does it check that? If it doesn't, then maybe it's not the right decision for us. It might be a nice thing to have, but it may not be something that's right for the business. So having that mental clarity and trying to spear especially in these times because we've never taken our business online. We've never done a zoom virtual class before. The last two weeks have been hugely successful and overwhelming and I think it comes down to not just smart decision making, but also clear-headed decision making and not just doing something because another brand is doing it. But doing something that feels right for us for our brand for this time and for everything else.
Meggie: So you run WeBarre studio, which is obviously an exercise to you. If you talked about mental clutter as being one of those aspects of clutter in our life, how important is exercise and also exercise with the community?
How can exercise simplify your headspace and keep you on track and focused?
Anabel: There are several things I can think of. One is that the 60 minutes that you're in the studio working out, it's a very focused workout. For us, it's not just being physical. I think a lot of stuff goes on in the background to make it an attentional as well. Whether it's the music, the journey, how instructors motivate, we try to pack that 60 minutes. So that you can call WeBarre your happy place. When you come in the next 60 minutes. It's just you and your workout, and you don't think about anything else.
Partitioning yourself, “I'm going to be present. I'm going to be aware. I'm going to be focused in what I'm doing.” So I think that’s a way of saying, “I can wait, my to-do lists can wait, and I just want to do this.” I think one of the best ways to avoid mental clutter, which might come as a surprise to many people, including myself, is to avoid multitasking, actually. Some people are great at multitasking. That's fine. Because the thing is, you are pulling your attention in several different directions. When I want to have a conversation with you, let me just have that conversation with you. If I'm working on something, let me just work on that and I'll be faster, I'll be more committed. I can think with way much more clarity.
Meggie: The multitasking is really interesting, I have to say that I'm a victim to that often. And I know that it doesn't make logical sense, yet for some reason, I think that I can be better than science and still be productive, but obviously, I'm not.
I follow your social media and I love that you are very intentional. You do ask the community when you're with us, please work hard, please sweat. Then when you're out, don't do work, don’t check emails, be with your family, while you're here, please be here and that's really interesting.
Is that something that you and your team set up intentionally as part of the culture?
Anabel: I think it wasn't something that we wrote in the SLP. You know, be present. Do not think about anything else when you're in the class. With everything else that we've done with, whether it's making decisions that are in line with our values or not, it kind of came naturally as something that we would do. If you were to make this an empowering place for your community, then no. I don't want to share that time with something else at work that could be bothering me. So I think it was a natural progression.
For someone who's feeling a bit cluttered in their physical space, mental space, and their digital life, what would you suggest they do as a baby step to work on simplifying?
Anabel: Develop a positive mindset about it. Don't focus on subtracting like, “Oh, I can't have this. I don't want this and all that.” Think about the positive side, like the glass is half full. Choose what to keep instead. Don’t think about subtraction, but think about trying to simplify things. If possible, try to automate, delegate, and outsource.
I ask myself, have I used this in the last three months? Or have I been thinking about this for the last three months? For example, I signed up with TikTok. I've not used it for three months. I think I'm going to delete that out of my phone. That’s the digital clutter that I don't need.
Set a rule for yourself. My husband has a rule. If he buys one item, he has to give away or throw out something that he already owns. Buy quality over quantity. Set a routine for yourself in a Sheldon Cooper kind of way. Maybe not as extreme but set a routine and show that you only buy what you need. Otherwise, it becomes a toxic cycle of buying, throwing, buying, throwing.
Start with the physical first because that's something that you can perceive right away. A lot of people have the misconception that decluttering is reorganizing. I don't think it is. You can't just take everything that you own and reorganize it and call that decluttering in a way. The thing is, out of all these things that you have, you really don't need everything that you have out there. So declutter. Start with your physical spaces. Then clear any apps that don't serve you anymore. Unfollow on friends, any platforms that don't serve you anymore.
Then you can start looking inwards to yourself, whether it's streamlining financial commitment, scheduling, me-time, focusing, listing down your values and priorities. Start that habit of being decisive. What do I want from my life? Do I need this In my life or not? Then hopefully coming to the conclusion that your time is your biggest asset, and you should spend it.
Meggie: I love that and I think something that you touched on that really resonates with me is not thinking about decluttering as a negative and seeing it as what are you going to gain from this? Maybe you're going to take your wardrobe from 20 pieces down to 15. But what a gift to be able to give those five pieces to a friend or to someone who's lost their job, or to donate it to a thrift store or a charity? And someone else is going to get so much joy out of that. Maybe it was amazing and maybe you wore it every day like three years ago but now you don’t. It's lovely to pay it forward and imagine what that could do for someone else.
I also love what you said about buying quality and that was a decision I made a few years ago. For sustainability reasons, it actually was to buy more organic. Often, it's more expensive and so I appreciate doing that by buying one. Knowing that you'll hold on to it for 10 or 15 years rather than the fast fashion that kills the environment.
This is very therapeutic. I can see why WeBarre’s so successful across Asia. You bring wonderful ethos. And I believe your values are very clear. And we're just delighted to have had this time with you.
“Choose what to keep instead. Don’t think about subtraction, but think about trying to simplify things”